(8:16:01 PM) You have just entered room "blades."
niemandcw (8:16:03 PM): We'd just make sure of the encoding of all the files before relasing it. 
dintiradan (8:16:20 PM): Hello all.
dintiradan (8:16:24 PM): What'd I miss?
tomsterthemonstr (8:16:29 PM): (Be back eventually.)
niemandcw (8:16:31 PM): Hey, Dinti. 
niemandcw (8:16:56 PM): We think we want to get JV to include some player made scenarios in BoA for the demo. 
niemandcw (8:17:09 PM): TM wants to reform the CSR. 
Saralfur (8:17:10 PM): We want to publicize BoA. We want JV to open some more scenarios before the registration barrier. We also want to deal with the "official" scenario review tables by encouraging JV to abolish them and translating the scores into the Forge.
dintiradan (8:17:14 PM): Yeah, wasn't there a BoE collection released like that?
Saralfur (8:17:34 PM): Yes, but we mean before the actual registration, Dinti.
JetGuitarist89 (8:17:50 PM): Jeff really should advertise the fact that this community does exist
dintiradan (8:17:52 PM): Ah, gotcha.
niemandcw (8:18:00 PM): We're currently considering publishing a scenario that a new designer can asseble from pices to learn how it works. 
niemandcw (8:18:09 PM): *assemble
JanusFace2Face (8:18:38 PM): Just me? You mean the rest of you like that POS?
SteveMcWhat (8:18:49 PM): As far as the demo scenario goes, I think it pretty much has to be something by Eph
dintiradan (8:18:57 PM): (Janus is TM? Or someone else?
niemandcw (8:18:59 PM): No, no, it's just that you're the latest to call for it, TM. 
JetGuitarist89 (8:19:06 PM): yeah, that's what we were saying
Saralfur (8:19:07 PM): Yes, Janus is TM
JanusFace2Face (8:19:07 PM): I'd want two scenarios of different styles.
Saralfur (8:19:14 PM): I agree
dintiradan (8:19:49 PM): Ideally, you'd want a scenario that people can play after VoDT. And hopefully something after that.
Saralfur (8:19:58 PM): We have a list somewhere
Saralfur (8:20:00 PM): hold on
JetGuitarist89 (8:20:04 PM): I hate to keep bringing up more problems, but shouldn't Jeff advertise the editor better, and possibly even just switch it to the 3d editor?
JanusFace2Face (8:20:09 PM): I mean, my scenario would probably constitute one "extreme"... but it may be too extr--
JanusFace2Face (8:20:10 PM): HEY
niemandcw (8:20:19 PM): That would be best, yes, ES. 
JanusFace2Face (8:20:20 PM): WHY don't we COLLABORATE to make these scenarios?
JetGuitarist89 (8:20:32 PM): okay, I'll write it, you make it
SteveMcWhat (8:20:35 PM): w00t!!1!!
JanusFace2Face (8:20:42 PM): No, I'm serious.
Saralfur (8:20:48 PM): Go on, TM
JanusFace2Face (8:20:51 PM): We should draft a story together.
SteveMcWhat (8:20:53 PM): No, don't. gtfo
dintiradan (8:21:07 PM): Really? I thought you were always pessimistic about collaboratives.
niemandcw (8:21:09 PM): I think that would be awesome, we just can't fail like previous times. Got that everyone? No failure. 
JanusFace2Face (8:21:10 PM): And we can write different towns/outdoor sections on our own, and then import them later.
Saralfur (8:21:24 PM): Dude, Not all collabs failed.
SteveMcWhat (8:21:26 PM): Didn't you do a collab once TM?
Saralfur (8:21:29 PM): EP?
JanusFace2Face (8:21:31 PM): Yeah.
niemandcw (8:21:37 PM): True, but yours was small, Nikki. 
JanusFace2Face (8:21:38 PM): I inserted myself as a god. ^_^
JetGuitarist89 (8:21:42 PM): EP wasn't a failure? :-)
SteveMcWhat (8:21:43 PM): Did it suck because of the collaboration part, or did you suck as individuals?
niemandcw (8:22:26 PM): It hasn't been ruled out that it was a statistical fluctuation of suckiness. (Actually, I haven't even played it.)
SteveMcWhat (8:22:43 PM): Oh no, I offended TM and killed blades for good... :P
JanusFace2Face (8:22:48 PM): What does "statistical fluctuation" mean, other than "they're unusually sucky"?
JanusFace2Face (8:23:02 PM): (I thought you were referring to EP.)
dintiradan (8:23:18 PM): Hey Niemand, think we can teach the non-techies how to use svn?
SteveMcWhat (8:23:36 PM): I don't remember which of yours was made with Sullust.
niemandcw (8:23:46 PM): We could, but we don't have a suitable file format yet. 
JanusFace2Face (8:23:48 PM): http://forum.nethergate.net/index.php?showtopic=727
JanusFace2Face (8:23:53 PM): The collaborative effort.
JanusFace2Face (8:24:01 PM): I wonder if it's even on my computer anymore. :P
Saralfur (8:24:10 PM): Insightful reviews, there.
SteveMcWhat (8:24:15 PM): Oh, I thought it was one of your earlier ones. Well I haven't p layed it, but it has a shitty rep
JanusFace2Face (8:24:17 PM): Hahaha.
dintiradan (8:24:23 PM): Yeah, the .bas file is a problem, probably easiest to e-mail that around. But the scripts at least can be doable.
JanusFace2Face (8:24:28 PM): Sullust basically made it at first.
niemandcw (8:24:32 PM): I started on the improved format, but I sort of haven't finished yet. 
JetGuitarist89 (8:24:38 PM): What if we worked on a ported scenario
JanusFace2Face (8:24:42 PM): And then I made it AWESOME.
niemandcw (8:24:44 PM): We can cripple by on email if we have to, though. 
JetGuitarist89 (8:24:46 PM): BoE is already open source
JetGuitarist89 (8:24:52 PM): Jeff wouldn't be risking anything that way
JetGuitarist89 (8:25:14 PM): plus we could pull from a pool of these awesome scenarios I hear so much about
Saralfur (8:25:24 PM): Porting sucks.
niemandcw (8:25:24 PM): How would BoE being FOSS help?
JetGuitarist89 (8:25:35 PM): I figured it was free now
JetGuitarist89 (8:25:39 PM): maybe I'm just stupid
JetGuitarist89 (8:25:43 PM): don't hit me
SteveMcWhat (8:26:16 PM): It is, but the question is how it helps.
SteveMcWhat (8:26:33 PM): Because only one of us here knows BoE.
JetGuitarist89 (8:26:39 PM): I dunno
JetGuitarist89 (8:26:45 PM): it was just an idea
SteveMcWhat (8:26:52 PM): Well I'm going to hit you. :P
SteveMcWhat (8:26:57 PM): Port Roots
SteveMcWhat (8:27:00 PM): Or Emulations.
Saralfur (8:27:07 PM): I tried porting Emulations.
JetGuitarist89 (8:27:10 PM): You don't even know where I live
Saralfur (8:27:12 PM): Lets not try again.
SteveMcWhat (8:27:20 PM): It should have been done a while ago, instead of fucking River and Leaf
SteveMcWhat (8:27:29 PM): Roots would probably be easier than Emulations.
niemandcw (8:27:33 PM): We don't need BoE. Isn't the point that we can make our _own_ good stuff?
SteveMcWhat (8:27:42 PM): Emulations had some funky stuff in it. Roots just had timers.
JetGuitarist89 (8:27:53 PM): the point is to attract more people to try our stuff
JetGuitarist89 (8:28:02 PM): if we can lie to them, we've already got them hooked
dintiradan (8:28:31 PM): Slithy just gave us the new slogan for our effort.
dintiradan (8:28:39 PM): "Try BoA - the first one is free!"
JetGuitarist89 (8:28:59 PM): :-D
dintiradan (8:29:14 PM): Clearly, the hypothetical free scenario must contains skribbane.
niemandcw (8:29:19 PM): And it is. But it's not addictive enough. Can we infuse a scenario with nicotine?
(8:29:20 PM) Slartucker has entered the room.
JanusFace2Face (8:29:23 PM): It musts.
niemandcw (8:29:30 PM): Scratch that, skribbane is a better choice. 
Slartucker (8:29:33 PM): yo hey.
SteveMcWhat (8:29:39 PM): Heyo
JanusFace2Face (8:29:40 PM): ...we could just implant electrodes in the players' brains.
JetGuitarist89 (8:29:41 PM): who is the newcomer?
niemandcw (8:29:49 PM): Slarty
dintiradan (8:29:51 PM): Slarty of the blinding yellow text.
Slartucker (8:29:56 PM): blinding yellow text?
SteveMcWhat (8:30:00 PM): He's green for me
Slartucker (8:30:01 PM): try default AIM text.
niemandcw (8:30:03 PM): It's pale green. 
JetGuitarist89 (8:30:04 PM): oh okay
Saralfur (8:30:23 PM): Slarty's black, y'all.
dintiradan (8:30:23 PM): Ah, never mind me. Still very much an AIM noob,.
Slartucker (8:30:28 PM): so did anything get conversated about boa gold.
Slartucker (8:30:33 PM): ?
JetGuitarist89 (8:30:37 PM): that's what we're discussing
niemandcw (8:30:46 PM): Addictive scenario design is the current topic. 
Slartucker (8:30:56 PM): meaning what?
Slartucker (8:31:00 PM): skribbane?
dintiradan (8:31:09 PM): That, and subliminal messages.
JetGuitarist89 (8:31:14 PM): we were thinking: one example of a good scenario, one "piece it together yourself" scenario
Slartucker (8:31:33 PM): that piece it together idea sounds like it has promise.
niemandcw (8:31:42 PM): That way people could see what can be done, and how it's done. 
Slartucker (8:31:45 PM): reminds me of that mini-scenario TM put together.
JanusFace2Face (8:31:58 PM): Which?
SteveMcWhat (8:31:59 PM): You know, if it's too much effort to convince people to buy BoA there are always more unscrupulous methods.....
dintiradan (8:32:04 PM): Yeah, Settlers was great.
Slartucker (8:32:09 PM): settlers, I think
JanusFace2Face (8:32:14 PM): (Laz--that was MY idea!)
SteveMcWhat (8:32:28 PM): Yeah, I gave you the lead in to bring it up but you wouldn't! :P
JetGuitarist89 (8:32:29 PM): So we threaten Jeff to advertise for us or we'll point people in the wrong direction?
niemandcw (8:32:30 PM): Laz: I already suggested hacking peoples computers and installing BoA against their will. 
dintiradan (8:32:42 PM): The only problem with Settlers is you get the scenario in one piece, albeit with a design document.
Slartucker (8:32:51 PM): christ, people.  you need to realize that jeff is not a factor in this.
JetGuitarist89 (8:33:04 PM): it was a joke
niemandcw (8:33:11 PM): Agreed. Settlers is good, let's just build another and leave it not quite complete. 
dintiradan (8:33:32 PM): If there was a tutorial hosted, showing how to make one bit by bit, much like the very short example Jeff has in the docs.
Slartucker (8:33:33 PM): BoA Gold is a great idea, but ALL it will ever be if Jeff is involved is marketing packaging and BoA with a few boring scenarios.
Slartucker (8:33:38 PM): he won't change the registration barrier.
dintiradan (8:33:52 PM): Except our example would also show how to do custom graphics, simple scripts, etc.
dintiradan (8:33:56 PM): Rather than just town design.
Slartucker (8:33:58 PM): here's another thought:
Slartucker (8:34:18 PM): what about a player-made BoA Gold package, not affiliated with SW but perhaps attractive and family friendly enough to get a prominent link on the BoA page?
Slartucker (8:34:48 PM): coming with the tutorial scenario being discussed, plus some written instructions, the cookbook or somesuch, some examples of extra graphics, and a few gem scenarios
SteveMcWhat (8:34:49 PM): But without a lifted barrier, what is BoA gold?
Slartucker (8:34:57 PM): something for players who DO register
niemandcw (8:34:57 PM): Trouble is, that won't entice anyone who hasn't already bough the game. 
Slartucker (8:35:00 PM): to get them actually hooked.
Slartucker (8:35:03 PM): right
Slartucker (8:35:09 PM): you're not going to get people to buy the game
Slartucker (8:35:29 PM): at least not directly -- if you really hook someone you might get a sale from a friend of theirs
dintiradan (8:35:49 PM): A player made BoA Gold shows prospective buyers that BoA is mature enough to have the same amount of good content to rival a JV game.
JanusFace2Face (8:35:55 PM): So your idea is to make people who buy the game likelier to join the community?
dintiradan (8:35:57 PM): (Or best it, depending on your stance.)
Slartucker (8:36:02 PM): given that the registration barrier isn't changing (and it's not) your objective should really be to hook the people who are about to buy BoA, or who bought it and are interested but never bothered to explore much
JanusFace2Face (8:36:03 PM): (Best it by far)
Slartucker (8:36:33 PM): essentially, TM.
Slartucker (8:37:01 PM): but there are also a lot of people out there who HAVE bought the game, who like the idea of making scenarios, and have never done it
Slartucker (8:37:09 PM): a certain chunk of them would TOTALLY start given a good tutorial
JetGuitarist89 (8:37:15 PM): I agree
JanusFace2Face (8:37:15 PM): Whether JV loosens the registration barrier depends on sales figures.
Slartucker (8:37:17 PM): the packaged BoA editor is not easy to approach
JanusFace2Face (8:37:23 PM): *might depend
Slartucker (8:37:25 PM): dude, he's not going to.
Slartucker (8:37:35 PM): partly because of sales, but partly because of laziness.
JetGuitarist89 (8:37:36 PM): we should get a list of emails of everyone who has bought the game
niemandcw (8:37:37 PM): The 3D editor was a big step forward, but it's hardlya silver bullet. 
JanusFace2Face (8:37:46 PM): My thought was, we could offer to do it for him.
niemandcw (8:37:58 PM): ES: that would proably violate the agreement under which the list was collected. 
Slartucker (8:38:01 PM): it almost convinced me to make a scenario, niemand.
JetGuitarist89 (8:38:22 PM): again, not serious
Slartucker (8:38:48 PM): imban should send you some of his :P
JanusFace2Face (8:39:15 PM): Would JV be willing to send an email out to all people who bought the game?
Slartucker (8:39:24 PM): no way jose.
dintiradan (8:39:31 PM): Mailing list, maybe.
Slartucker (8:39:37 PM): no way jose.
JetGuitarist89 (8:39:49 PM): what would be wrong with the mailing list?
Slartucker (8:39:50 PM): at best it could get a bullet point mention in the once (or is it twice) a year newsletter
niemandcw (8:39:53 PM): That's what his mailing list is you know, for. 
Slartucker (8:40:02 PM): you're missing the point.
Slartucker (8:40:06 PM): jeff does not believe in BoA.
niemandcw (8:40:10 PM): The fact that no one subscibes to it would merely be a pesky detail. 
Slartucker (8:40:14 PM): he does believe in his other games, and in his customers.
dintiradan (8:40:14 PM): Even if we wrote the e-mail for him (:-P)
SteveMcWhat (8:40:22 PM): I think what they're talking about isn't the mailing but using the emails people used when registering
Saralfur (8:40:23 PM): Is there any way at all to make coding simpler? Like, for example, a program a designer would use to do it for him. So he could click a button labelled "dialog box", stick some text that he wanted displaying, and then check a box to say whether its a one shot.
Slartucker (8:40:25 PM): he's NOT going to spam his customers for something most of them are not interested in
JanusFace2Face (8:40:32 PM): Because JV doesn't believe in BoA, I'm most inclined to pirate it for him.
SteveMcWhat (8:40:38 PM): Yep
Slartucker (8:40:40 PM): Nikki: yes, it's called the Blades of Exile Editor.
niemandcw (8:40:41 PM): Nikki: No, not really. 
Saralfur (8:41:01 PM): Slarty - that was basically what I was thinking of when I thought of that.
niemandcw (8:41:03 PM): BoE's nodes pretty much do the same things, but ina more cumbersome way. 
dintiradan (8:41:05 PM): (Crap, I keep on forgetting Saralfur == Nikki)
Slartucker (8:41:20 PM): I mean let's be honest, that's the #1 reasons boa never picked up more.
Slartucker (8:41:25 PM): that damn editor.
SteveMcWhat (8:41:26 PM): You could totally write BoA script as nodes. there's no state limit, is there?
JanusFace2Face (8:41:38 PM): There is none.
SteveMcWhat (8:41:53 PM): The problem is writing a scenario editor that basically prompted you for what would go in each node, then wrote it.
JetGuitarist89 (8:41:59 PM): I agree, the only reason I bought BoA was because I knew BoE had been more successful.
JetGuitarist89 (8:42:10 PM): I was committed to the notion that I would learn how to script and make a scenario.
Slartucker (8:42:17 PM): I can't actually remember if I bought BoA or not
Slartucker (8:42:22 PM): I think I did
Slartucker (8:43:00 PM): yeah, that's right, I played 10 minutes of bahssikava and 3 minutes of mad ambition once.
JetGuitarist89 (8:43:14 PM): good investment?
SteveMcWhat (8:43:17 PM): Well honestly the idea with the most potential so far is the "door to door piracy" idea
niemandcw (8:43:35 PM): Hello, can I interest you in this fine, stolen software?
JetGuitarist89 (8:43:54 PM): I'm also selling these fine leather jackets.
SteveMcWhat (8:44:00 PM): Well not literally knocking on doors. Just leaving pirated copies in places nerds would pick it up. :P
Slartucker (8:44:18 PM): I need a designer bag for agrias.
JetGuitarist89 (8:44:55 PM): Admittedly, this game is not something I would pay $25 for if I didn't want to design for it.
Slartucker (8:44:56 PM): WTF?  ackrovan thinks god is gay?
Slartucker (8:45:10 PM): where do they come up with this shit
dintiradan (8:45:14 PM): ^ ?
Slartucker (8:45:20 PM): http://thespireofarchon.webs.com/apps/blog/
niemandcw (8:45:30 PM): He'
niemandcw (8:45:40 PM): He's an idiot, and best ignored. 
Saralfur (8:46:09 PM): "Did Jesus really walk on water, or did he just run really fast, like the Flash? " 
Saralfur (8:46:10 PM): Oh my.
JetGuitarist89 (8:46:17 PM): he's just young
dintiradan (8:46:19 PM): He's a young angsty kid with access to the Internet.
dintiradan (8:46:24 PM): A dangerous combination.
JetGuitarist89 (8:46:24 PM): don't be so hard on him
Slartucker (8:46:26 PM): and boat oil, apparently.
dintiradan (8:46:28 PM): (Sniped  by ES)
niemandcw (8:46:31 PM): Clearly only a homosexual being could create a universe. 
JetGuitarist89 (8:46:45 PM): he'd have to be a masochist too
Slartucker (8:46:49 PM): he must be wrong.  the universe isn't nearly fabulous enough.
JetGuitarist89 (8:47:01 PM): not enough glitter?
dintiradan (8:47:16 PM): Slarty: But you have in your mind the concept of fabulousness, do you not?
Slartucker (8:47:17 PM): there's stardust in your hair, enraged slith
Slartucker (8:47:32 PM): actually, I've never really understood fabulousness
dintiradan (8:47:50 PM): Fab God is the being for which no more fabulous thing can exist.
Slartucker (8:48:08 PM): and the Fabversary, then?
JetGuitarist89 (8:48:40 PM): funny story: I once witnessed a car drive through the turning lane to bypass the traffic jam everyone was stuck in.  The license plate, in big pink letters read: FABULOUS
SteveMcWhat (8:48:44 PM): That website makes my brain hurt. Don't link to it again
SteveMcWhat (8:49:01 PM): And this fab-god has the potential to become the new cow god. Kill it.
Slartucker (8:49:08 PM): hah
niemandcw (8:49:49 PM): Do you use some sort of pesticide to kill gods?
JetGuitarist89 (8:50:05 PM): small pox
Slartucker (8:50:14 PM): really fucking big pox
JanusFace2Face (8:50:43 PM): ...this is not even remotely BoA-related anymore.
JetGuitarist89 (8:50:51 PM): well, let's get back on track
JanusFace2Face (8:51:01 PM): So.
JetGuitarist89 (8:51:05 PM): so, convincing Jeff of anything is essentially pointless?
JanusFace2Face (8:51:16 PM): I'm inclined to agree...
JetGuitarist89 (8:51:19 PM): we got him to put a small note in the news section about our annual contest
Slartucker (8:51:22 PM): I think that was established in 2004 or so
niemandcw (8:51:22 PM): I'm not so convinced of that, but let's not count on it. 
JanusFace2Face (8:51:30 PM): (Well before 2004.)
Slartucker (8:51:34 PM): small notes in newsletters are doable.
JanusFace2Face (8:51:42 PM): (Alcritas was bitching about JV's incompetence ever since I joined.)
Slartucker (8:51:58 PM): whatever happened to Alcritas anyway?  did he ever resurface?
JetGuitarist89 (8:52:01 PM): I just don't see why he wouldn't try to sell the community, at least a little.  It's half of the game right there.
dintiradan (8:52:01 PM): The whole mail fraud thing, right?
Saralfur (8:52:04 PM): It still is worth asking for the registration barrier to be shifted a little. He might say no. He probably will, but if we put forward a good argument...
Slartucker (8:52:18 PM): he will definitely say no.
Slartucker (8:52:29 PM): it is NOT WORTH IT because he will become closed off to further advances from y'all
Slartucker (8:52:43 PM): ask for things he is willing to do first.  push the envelope very, very, slowly
Slartucker (8:53:01 PM): if he sees a response from newsletter notes, he'll be more receptive to anything else
JanusFace2Face (8:53:14 PM): (Alcritas yelled about JV often.)
Slartucker (8:53:14 PM): or from a player-driven BoA Gold package, etc
JanusFace2Face (8:53:27 PM): My idea is, Phase 1 should be "everything that's very easy for JV to do."
JetGuitarist89 (8:53:32 PM): well the BoA gold package is good, the more in-depth tutorials are good too
Slartucker (8:53:35 PM): *nod nod*
JetGuitarist89 (8:53:35 PM): that's community side
JetGuitarist89 (8:54:02 PM): we could probably put more advertising on the BoA boards
JanusFace2Face (8:54:14 PM): Newsletter notices, updating CSR and its links thereto, and BoA Gold seem like good beginnings.
Slartucker (8:54:24 PM): *nod nod*
JetGuitarist89 (8:54:49 PM): we could do something more special with judging this 24hour contest
niemandcw (8:55:00 PM): How so?
JetGuitarist89 (8:55:03 PM): I know that LPs are fun to read, maybe we could do something similar
JanusFace2Face (8:55:10 PM): LPs?
JetGuitarist89 (8:55:14 PM): screenshots, commentary, the works
Slartucker (8:55:15 PM): BoA Gold is the best one of all.  People won't care about links to websites they aren't going to follow, but an ACTUAL "SOFTWARE PACKAGE" will make people BELIEVE the community is alive
JetGuitarist89 (8:55:16 PM): Let's Play <game name>
JanusFace2Face (8:55:27 PM): Hunh?
JetGuitarist89 (8:55:41 PM): http://www.gamespite.net/talkingtime/forumdisplay.php?f=15
JanusFace2Face (8:55:51 PM): Honestly, all of the Phase 1 stuff should be done no matter what else we do.
JanusFace2Face (8:56:16 PM): Phase 2, depending on JV, will either be "that which takes up more of JV's time" or "that which takes food out of his family's mouths".
niemandcw (8:56:41 PM): BoA puts no food in their mouths to begin with. 
Slartucker (8:56:48 PM): I think JV stuff should really be phase 3.
niemandcw (8:57:14 PM): And phase 2 consists of what, then?
dintiradan (8:57:17 PM): Crazy idea: should we start our own Blades newsletter? Something designed to get the attention of lurkers who don't visit the boards.
Slartucker (8:57:22 PM): I don't know what phase 2 would be, but without a step in between phase 3 will never happen
Slartucker (8:57:27 PM): *that* is another good idea.
JetGuitarist89 (8:57:33 PM): it consists of digging for stuff to blackmail
niemandcw (8:57:41 PM): How do we get people to sign up, Dinti?
dintiradan (8:57:46 PM): At the end of each new scenario, print a popup saying "Subscribe to the BoA mailing list at boa@foo.net
niemandcw (8:57:59 PM): Sounds good. 
dintiradan (8:58:00 PM): And send out a notice everytime a scenario is released.
JetGuitarist89 (8:58:14 PM): so we're thinking of a semi-annual newsletter then?
Slartucker (8:58:44 PM): it can be more than that.
niemandcw (8:58:47 PM): Monthly or so would be better if we could scrape together enough activity. 
JanusFace2Face (8:58:53 PM): Agreed.
dintiradan (8:58:54 PM): Granted, the newletter would only be useful for those who already own Blades, not prospective buyers.
Slartucker (8:59:05 PM): there's no way around that.
JanusFace2Face (8:59:41 PM): My thought for phase 2a: Loosen registration barriers, edit BoA to include the gold package by default, convince JV to send out a one-time email to BoA registrants petitioning them to join the newsletter.
SteveMcWhat (9:00:01 PM): ES: What exactly was it you had in mind regarding the 24 hour contest?
JanusFace2Face (9:00:09 PM): If that fails, then phase 2b involves CD drops and mass distribution online.
JetGuitarist89 (9:00:17 PM): I was thinking something along the lines of LPs
SteveMcWhat (9:00:22 PM): I'm all about getting new people involved. That's the whole fucking point of the contest.
Slartucker (9:00:32 PM): none of those things will happen (2a)
SteveMcWhat (9:00:43 PM): Posted at SW, or posted at an LP site for outside exposure?
Slartucker (9:00:51 PM): adding BoA Gold to default BoA... mayyyybe
JetGuitarist89 (9:00:51 PM): if we could entertain people with the results, they might be interested in seeing what we do in the future
Slartucker (9:01:08 PM): registration barriers and emails to BoA buyers will -never- happen.
Saralfur (9:01:09 PM): Posted at both, Laz?
SteveMcWhat (9:02:14 PM): Yeah, I suppose posting them at SW is a given.
SteveMcWhat (9:02:22 PM): Since anything blades related gets cross posted there
SteveMcWhat (9:03:10 PM): I've never really seen an LP before, but I can see how they'd be fun. I enjoyed reading Imban's Avatar/Pariah stuff
SteveMcWhat (9:03:23 PM): And that didn't even have any pretty pictures. :P
JanusFace2Face (9:03:24 PM): We should probably list our requests in the order of their difficulty to JV.
JetGuitarist89 (9:03:48 PM): have you read his blog?
JanusFace2Face (9:03:50 PM): Honestly, I think we're just going to end up breaking the law if we really want to popularize this beast.
niemandcw (9:03:53 PM): Frankly, none of the idea proposed is difficult for JV. Some he just may not like anyway. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:04:03 PM): he is so set in the fact that everyone hates him, that I think he strives for it
Slartucker (9:04:14 PM): I really doubt breaking the law will make it that much more popular.
JanusFace2Face (9:04:29 PM): Really? "FREE GAME CLICK HERE"?
Slartucker (9:04:33 PM): Really.
JanusFace2Face (9:04:34 PM): ...eh.
(9:04:40 PM) SWmem7775 has entered the room.
dintiradan (9:04:41 PM): The purpose of his blog is to attract attention from Slashdot and other news sites, so his games get more coverage.
Slartucker (9:04:45 PM): anyone who will click on "FREE GAME CLICK HERE" will not be interested in BoA.
JanusFace2Face (9:05:14 PM): ...you know, maybe we should all just move to an editor system that doesn't have an asshole running it.
Slartucker (9:05:15 PM): and what web sites want to run a feature on a 5 year old game being distributed illegally by its players?
JetGuitarist89 (9:05:40 PM): I know what the purpose is, I'm just saying that he actually accepts the fact that most people wont like his ideas.  He even keywords some of his entries: "everyone will hate this"
Slartucker (9:06:04 PM): that's just his attitude towards the world.  it long predates his programming life.
JetGuitarist89 (9:06:04 PM): what about popular rpg gaming forums?
JetGuitarist89 (9:06:14 PM): like gamebanshee?
JetGuitarist89 (9:06:24 PM): couldn't we advertise to them and see if some people bite?
Slartucker (9:06:27 PM): again, they'll never cover a 5 year old game that was DOA and has, what, 20 dedicated players?
dintiradan (9:07:08 PM): You _might_ have some luck in fan sites for similar games, like Eshcaton-whatever-it-is, but not mainstream sites.
JetGuitarist89 (9:07:10 PM): I remember reading in one of the reviews for BoA that Jeff stated the game was selling better than he anticipated
Slartucker (9:07:32 PM): that was probably just him trying to sell it
niemandcw (9:07:35 PM): That sounds like the reverse of everything i've ever heard him say. 
Slartucker (9:07:41 PM): if he said it was selling poorly nobody would go look at it
JetGuitarist89 (9:07:42 PM): My point is, a lot of the people on these sites actually know who Jeff is
Slartucker (9:07:44 PM): it's just advertising
dintiradan (9:07:53 PM): Might just be very early sales, when Exile fans were switching over.
JetGuitarist89 (9:07:54 PM): though most of them actively hate his guts
JetGuitarist89 (9:09:08 PM): well, let's start on that BoA Gold package
JetGuitarist89 (9:09:14 PM): make it a file download on the forums
JetGuitarist89 (9:09:31 PM): put some tutorials together
JetGuitarist89 (9:09:42 PM): and pretend we're more fun of a group than we really are
SWmem7775 (9:10:15 PM): We could make our own ads.
JanusFace2Face (9:10:44 PM): ...what's this new person?
niemandcw (9:10:46 PM): But we have nowhere to display them without buying ad space. 
niemandcw (9:10:51 PM): Jewels
SWmem7775 (9:11:06 PM): you never heard of you tube?
dintiradan (9:11:08 PM): Also, let's be realistic. If we increase player membership by 40% and designers by 20%, that would be a PHENOMENAL success.
Slartucker (9:11:30 PM): it's true.
JanusFace2Face (9:11:36 PM): ...eh, maybe not phenomenal.
JanusFace2Face (9:11:41 PM): It'd be, like, 2 designers. :P
niemandcw (9:11:48 PM): I would consider it a great more forward. 
Slartucker (9:11:54 PM): also necessary.  how many current BoA designers are in college and will be graduating in the next year and possibly having less free time?
JanusFace2Face (9:11:55 PM): It would be good.
JetGuitarist89 (9:11:57 PM): there are a couple of on-the-edge guys right now
JetGuitarist89 (9:12:08 PM): that duck guy
JanusFace2Face (9:12:10 PM): I graduate this semester. I'm taking a year off, but nonetheless.
JetGuitarist89 (9:12:17 PM): and that guy who designed a beta scenario and then split
Slartucker (9:12:19 PM): um, duck is not an on-the-edge designer.
niemandcw (9:12:23 PM): I know Ephesos is graduating. I don't know what his plans are afterward. 
Slartucker (9:12:28 PM): duck = uber, in case you ahven't figured that out.
JetGuitarist89 (9:12:34 PM): who is uber
Saralfur (9:12:39 PM): Oh god no.
Slartucker (9:12:46 PM): he's a 10 year old who thinks he understands quantum physics
JetGuitarist89 (9:12:49 PM): I've never posted much at SW, I've just been here a hell of a long time
SteveMcWhat (9:12:58 PM): Huh?
SteveMcWhat (9:13:09 PM): What's this about quantum physics on sw?
niemandcw (9:14:05 PM): http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9488&page=22
SteveMcWhat (9:14:06 PM): ES: you mean that foreign guy on shadow vale?
Saralfur (9:14:09 PM): Uber was the one with a bajillion posts, right?
JetGuitarist89 (9:14:10 PM): yes
Slartucker (9:14:19 PM): yes.
tomsterthemonstr (9:14:43 PM): Dude, graduating from college means being unemployed and having TONS of free time.
JetGuitarist89 (9:14:47 PM): yes to the foreign guy
tomsterthemonstr (9:14:51 PM): I think we should look forward to designers graduating.
Slartucker (9:15:23 PM): if ephesos is unemployed, I think he will put his hair out and not be in a creative space at all
Slartucker (9:15:30 PM): pull
JetGuitarist89 (9:15:47 PM): so who here is in college
JetGuitarist89 (9:15:49 PM): like right now
(9:15:54 PM) prayjose has entered the room.
JetGuitarist89 (9:15:55 PM): besides me
tomsterthemonstr (9:15:59 PM): Not I.
dintiradan (9:16:08 PM): And, if Eph really wants to get into game design, he should focus on more areas than BoA.
JanusFace2Face (9:16:18 PM): I
SteveMcWhat (9:16:19 PM): I
niemandcw (9:16:19 PM): I'm a first year grad student, so I will be for another 4 to 5 years. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:16:21 PM): he was branching into that ocean game
JetGuitarist89 (9:16:27 PM): he's a traitor :-)
dintiradan (9:16:27 PM): I think he does already (that summer camp thing among others), but still.
Slartucker (9:16:29 PM): lazarus, tm, ephesos.  more, I think.
SteveMcWhat (9:16:36 PM): Well I'm on break as of today
SteveMcWhat (9:16:40 PM): Just got home
JetGuitarist89 (9:16:40 PM): lucky
Saralfur (9:16:44 PM): I'm not in college.
dintiradan (9:16:49 PM): I'm on the last four months of my internship, then the last year of my degree.
dintiradan (9:16:57 PM): (Not that I contribute anything, but hey.)
JetGuitarist89 (9:17:00 PM): I've still got a large project to finish for my Systems Engineering class
SWmem7775 (9:17:01 PM): /me wishes she was back in college.
Slartucker (9:17:08 PM): you contribute your big head.
dintiradan (9:17:15 PM): *helmet
Saralfur (9:17:24 PM): (Oh, Slithy, good work on the new wooden floor.)
SteveMcWhat (9:17:53 PM): Is systems engineering actually a major, or just a class you're taking?
JetGuitarist89 (9:17:53 PM): thank Luz
JetGuitarist89 (9:17:56 PM): it's a major
SteveMcWhat (9:17:58 PM): And what project is that?
SteveMcWhat (9:18:28 PM): Hmm. I don't think UF offers that. Or at least they call it something different
JetGuitarist89 (9:18:37 PM): I'm part of a group writing a paper on (and go easy on me, this is a freshman level class) the way e-commerce/internet has changed the way companies conduct business.
dintiradan (9:18:57 PM): Bloody big topic, that.
JetGuitarist89 (9:19:07 PM): fresh. man.
SteveMcWhat (9:19:27 PM): My tech writing class was pure misery. Engineers shouldn't be made to write
prayjose (9:19:33 PM): Yes they should.
SteveMcWhat (9:19:33 PM): 'tis unnatural.
Slartucker (9:19:34 PM): i was so happy to get out of school, and i've been putting off grad school for way too long now.
SteveMcWhat (9:19:43 PM): Hey, where the fuck did dahak come from?
prayjose (9:19:47 PM): :)
Saralfur (9:20:02 PM): If you have to ask, at your age...
Saralfur (9:20:06 PM): *shakes head*
tomsterthemonstr (9:20:14 PM): As long as we're mildly off-topic
JetGuitarist89 (9:20:14 PM): systems engineering is essentially just being realistic about one's future in that degree
tomsterthemonstr (9:20:19 PM): someone give me a halfway decent idea for a short scenario.
prayjose (9:20:20 PM): Engineers had better learn to write tech specs well.  If I have to spend 12 bloody hours correcting 1 spec again...
dintiradan (9:20:32 PM): WALL OGRES
JetGuitarist89 (9:20:34 PM): from what I understand, almost no one actually "designs" like you do in your mechanical class
tomsterthemonstr (9:20:48 PM): Wall ogres.
dintiradan (9:20:57 PM): YES, WALL OGRES
niemandcw (9:21:00 PM): Indeed. Wall ogres. 
Slartucker (9:21:01 PM): seriously, I have wanted a wall ogre scenario.
tomsterthemonstr (9:21:03 PM): Like, ogres coming out of the walls?
tomsterthemonstr (9:21:14 PM): I am confused.
Slartucker (9:21:15 PM): I will download it and play the whole damn thing, I promise.
niemandcw (9:21:15 PM): Where else would wall ogres come from?
Saralfur (9:21:18 PM): I think Eph's doing wall ogres for his 24hr thing
JetGuitarist89 (9:21:28 PM): in case no one ever picked it up, the wall of ogres in KTD was a reference to that beautiful April Fools prank
Slartucker (9:21:31 PM): squee!
SteveMcWhat (9:21:37 PM): Oh cool, so I win by default.
JetGuitarist89 (9:21:41 PM): and the fact that I asked if the idea was up for grabs
Saralfur (9:21:45 PM): Oi, Slack, no.
Saralfur (9:22:23 PM): You only won last time cus I didn't participate.
tomsterthemonstr (9:22:29 PM): Okay, so idea #2. Go.
SteveMcWhat (9:22:38 PM): Only reason you didn't participate was because you knew I'd win
JetGuitarist89 (9:22:40 PM): When does that contest start?
dintiradan (9:22:42 PM): FLOOR OGRES.
SteveMcWhat (9:22:42 PM): So it's the same thing. :P
dintiradan (9:22:47 PM): Okay, so I got nothing.
niemandcw (9:22:51 PM): Ceiling Ogres!
SteveMcWhat (9:22:58 PM): Uh, like the 20th?
JetGuitarist89 (9:22:59 PM): It's Raining Ogres?
JetGuitarist89 (9:23:17 PM): Expect something nonsensical from me again.
tomsterthemonstr (9:23:19 PM): Floor Ogre, Win Prize?
Slartucker (9:23:21 PM): ceiling ogre is watching you masturbate?
SteveMcWhat (9:23:22 PM): I'll probably start something before then to make sure I still remember how to use the editor. :P
dintiradan (9:23:42 PM): Work on the Creative Scenario contest, perhaps?
dintiradan (9:23:49 PM): Or has everyone forgotten about that?
SteveMcWhat (9:23:56 PM): I never was involved with that
Saralfur (9:23:58 PM): No, I still have an entry
niemandcw (9:24:01 PM): Nor was I. 
SteveMcWhat (9:24:02 PM): I'm not creative enough. :P
prayjose (9:24:03 PM): Short Scenario:  You find an enchanted scroll.  Its magics cause the message to keep changing and the only way to uncover the truth is to find a wizard powerful enough to break the spell.  However, this wizard is not hospitable.  Can you get to him, alive?
tomsterthemonstr (9:24:04 PM): I haven't forgotten about it. I never paid attention to it in the first place.
Slartucker (9:24:18 PM): Julus Caesar in scenario form.
Slartucker (9:24:53 PM): Where in Valorim is Carmen Squiggus?
prayjose (9:25:07 PM): Carmen?
prayjose (9:25:14 PM): I know of Squiggus
Saralfur (9:25:14 PM): Squiggus is a town, isn't it?
prayjose (9:25:18 PM): But who is Carmen?
dintiradan (9:25:21 PM): Carmen Sandiego, I think.
Slartucker (9:25:23 PM): *facepalm*
Slartucker (9:25:28 PM): thank you.
prayjose (9:25:35 PM): ...
dintiradan (9:25:47 PM): An awesome TV show that tested kids on geography.
Slartucker (9:25:51 PM): TV show?
Slartucker (9:25:52 PM): bah
tomsterthemonstr (9:25:52 PM): Dahak may win the "come up with an idea for Kel" contest.
Slartucker (9:25:54 PM): that came later
Slartucker (9:26:01 PM): it was a series of kickass late 80s computer games
dintiradan (9:26:06 PM): Okay, fine, computer games too, but I never played them.
niemandcw (9:26:14 PM): Those games were awesome. 
Slartucker (9:26:19 PM): Broderbund's finest.
prayjose (9:26:25 PM): I have Where in Time is Carmen San Diego.
JetGuitarist89 (9:26:33 PM): YES
prayjose (9:26:35 PM): Fuuuun.
Slartucker (9:26:41 PM): the opening theme to the Apple ][ version is among my favourite pieces of music
JetGuitarist89 (9:27:02 PM): Just to bring this back on topic for a second, what exactly did you all want to include in this Gold package?
JetGuitarist89 (9:27:08 PM): the top 10 scenarios?
prayjose (9:27:36 PM): We have 10 grade A scenarios for different level ranges?
niemandcw (9:27:51 PM): Maybe the top 10 from unique designers?
Slartucker (9:28:14 PM): unique level ranges and designers, ideally.
prayjose (9:28:39 PM): That are not too difficult for first time Avernum players?
niemandcw (9:28:43 PM): From TM we should consider E:R, MA, and Canopy. 
niemandcw (9:28:59 PM): From Laz; Frostbite and the Tales. 
Slartucker (9:29:06 PM): split them into 2 folders: "Intermediate Scenarios" and "Expert Scenarios" - TM and Frostbite and such can go there
prayjose (9:29:08 PM): Is this Gold package to inspire new designers or create a greater base of players?
dintiradan (9:29:21 PM): Rats Aplenty for a humour scenario, or maybe Kill Them Dead (haven't played it yet).
JetGuitarist89 (9:29:36 PM): I would not recommend Tales, despite the fact that it is one of my favorites
dintiradan (9:29:36 PM): Both, preferrably.
JetGuitarist89 (9:29:39 PM): not KTD
JetGuitarist89 (9:29:40 PM): trust me
JetGuitarist89 (9:29:46 PM): not unless I cleaned it up
Saralfur (9:29:49 PM): KTD is funnier than Rats
Saralfur (9:29:51 PM): IMO
niemandcw (9:29:54 PM): I agree
JetGuitarist89 (9:30:06 PM): humor is subjective.
JetGuitarist89 (9:30:22 PM): Rats is much less confusing and is designed well
niemandcw (9:30:32 PM): Let's say Frostbite is Lazarus contribution. 
dintiradan (9:30:34 PM): Be fair on yourself: nobody finds themself funny.
prayjose (9:30:34 PM): Shades of Gray?
Slartucker (9:30:37 PM): cleaner, more understandable designers are critical.
Slartucker (9:30:52 PM): designs, I mean
niemandcw (9:30:54 PM): Either SoG or Embers. 
Slartucker (9:30:57 PM): god, can't type tonight
Saralfur (9:30:58 PM): Embers
JetGuitarist89 (9:31:16 PM): is SoG the ghosts one?
niemandcw (9:31:22 PM): Yes. My personal opinion is to favor Embers as well. 
dintiradan (9:31:29 PM): Embers has tres pretty outdoors, but SoG has that cathedral.
dintiradan (9:31:39 PM): We want eye candy, in any case.
JetGuitarist89 (9:31:43 PM): I recall SoG being very difficult
Saralfur (9:31:46 PM): Embers.
JetGuitarist89 (9:31:48 PM): my party got stuck there
Saralfur (9:32:03 PM): srsly
JetGuitarist89 (9:32:07 PM): no spellcasters
JetGuitarist89 (9:32:14 PM): I got to like the top of the tower
JetGuitarist89 (9:32:27 PM): I'm pretty sure those ghosts were practically immune to physical attacks
niemandcw (9:32:38 PM): FB is level irrelevant, since it destroys the party, right?
Saralfur (9:32:45 PM): yes
prayjose (9:32:49 PM): Hmmm..  The Scenario Facelift Program.  Revisit oldies are revamp their look so we have top notch scenery porn...
prayjose (9:33:14 PM): *and revamp
niemandcw (9:33:42 PM): I think Bahs is necessary. 
SteveMcWhat (9:33:48 PM): I beat SoG with a level 1 party
JetGuitarist89 (9:33:55 PM): DIE
SteveMcWhat (9:33:55 PM): At least the beta. Dunno if he changed things
dintiradan (9:33:59 PM): It is the scenario that ties in with the trilogy the most.
Slartucker (9:34:03 PM): bahs would be the very high level scenario included, right?
SWmem7775 (9:34:05 PM): * echoes Embers 
Saralfur (9:34:09 PM): Yes, Slarty
niemandcw (9:34:14 PM): I think so, Slarty. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:34:18 PM): rats, echoes, embers, bahs
Slartucker (9:34:26 PM): frostbite
SteveMcWhat (9:34:27 PM): Embers or SoG would be my choice if we were choosing a single scenario, like the lifted barrier idea
JetGuitarist89 (9:34:28 PM): yes
JetGuitarist89 (9:34:30 PM): FG
niemandcw (9:34:34 PM): (Bahs is 35-45, for the record)
Slartucker (9:34:49 PM): that counts as "very high level" for players used to JV scenarios
niemandcw (9:35:04 PM): Indeed, I just wanted to share the numbers. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:35:06 PM): I personally like Canopy more than Bahs
tomsterthemonstr (9:35:07 PM): Bahs was intended for players who'd just finished all four JV scenarios.
dintiradan (9:35:17 PM): Again, another one I haven't played yet, but what about Blades of Rogue. Good for converting hack'n'slash and nethack players, and displays what power BoA has.
tomsterthemonstr (9:35:20 PM): If you're going to have anything by me, Bahs would make the most sense.
SteveMcWhat (9:35:24 PM): Canopy is a total shitshow though, and TM has better to offer
Slartucker (9:35:38 PM): Blades of Rogue would be a great addition, IMHO.
Saralfur (9:35:41 PM): Bahs also has a plot, something Canopy is mostly missing.
JetGuitarist89 (9:35:48 PM): I suppose it just depends on what you like
niemandcw (9:35:51 PM): Canopy is my favorite TM scenario. 
SWmem7775 (9:35:55 PM): BoR is more of a designers scenario though
SWmem7775 (9:36:03 PM): to appreciate it anyway
dintiradan (9:36:05 PM): Canopy has philosophy, and the last thing this community needs is more talk. :-P
Slartucker (9:36:06 PM): there's 10 scenarios, there's room for variety.
JetGuitarist89 (9:36:17 PM): I would suggest adding Canopy and Bahs together
JetGuitarist89 (9:36:24 PM): because I think it would be funny to see them paired
Slartucker (9:36:32 PM): canopy is really hte TM scenario you want to include?
JetGuitarist89 (9:36:37 PM): no
Saralfur (9:36:39 PM): No.
SWmem7775 (9:36:43 PM): no
JetGuitarist89 (9:36:44 PM): if it's just one per designer, go with Echoes
dintiradan (9:36:50 PM): (And they got first and second on the first Blades contest.)
Slartucker (9:37:21 PM): I just think, if any designer is going to be doubled up, it probably shouldn't be TM.  not because he doesn't deserve it, but because he is not -accessible-.  accessibility is key here
SWmem7775 (9:37:23 PM): I like Bahs
SteveMcWhat (9:37:40 PM): Was MoC mentioned?
Saralfur (9:37:46 PM): yes, laz
JetGuitarist89 (9:37:47 PM): not over Rats
SteveMcWhat (9:37:47 PM): I'd take that over any of Smoo's stuff
niemandcw (9:37:48 PM): We're getting to MoC
JetGuitarist89 (9:38:01 PM): No way over Rats
niemandcw (9:38:07 PM): In fact, yes, I would choose that over Rats. 
Slartucker (9:38:08 PM): Rats is different from the others we're listing
Saralfur (9:38:20 PM): MoC is long and Vogelian, though
JetGuitarist89 (9:38:35 PM): Rats is almost perfect
Slartucker (9:38:39 PM): I vote rats any day, unless smoo makes the wall ogres.
dintiradan (9:38:48 PM): Rats over MoC, because of the humour if nothing else. We need variety in this pack.
SteveMcWhat (9:38:48 PM): I never reviewed MoC, but I remember having very positive thoughts after playing it. That was back when I was a BoA newb, it was released right aroudn when I joined
SteveMcWhat (9:39:02 PM): It's very accessible. A lot of fun stuff there.
JetGuitarist89 (9:39:08 PM): I need to play MoC again
JetGuitarist89 (9:39:14 PM): I never completed it (I got lost)
niemandcw (9:39:19 PM): I enjoyed MoC. Rats was just boring. However, Bahs and MoC fill the same large, high level scenario niche. 
Saralfur (9:39:20 PM): It could do without the time travel twist, but otherwise, it's good, agreed.
dintiradan (9:39:20 PM): Also, Rats is low level. What other suggestions do we have that are low level?
JetGuitarist89 (9:39:35 PM): Rats was not boring
SteveMcWhat (9:39:36 PM): See, the time travel twist isn't great but its a fun gimmick.
SteveMcWhat (9:39:47 PM): What with teh statues and such, and falling into a cart of hay. :P
JetGuitarist89 (9:39:51 PM): APF needs to be in there
JetGuitarist89 (9:39:53 PM): just a heads up
Saralfur (9:39:53 PM): Yeah, I guess :p
SteveMcWhat (9:40:01 PM): I didn't like APF to be honest
JetGuitarist89 (9:40:05 PM): as a Challenging scenario
Saralfur (9:40:18 PM): APF has shocking outdoors design.
Saralfur (9:40:25 PM): Otherwise, I'd say to stick it in.
Slartucker (9:40:27 PM): The complete list so far is what?  Rats, Frostbite, Bahs, Echoes, Embers?
SteveMcWhat (9:40:32 PM): Shockingly shitty if I recall correctly
dintiradan (9:40:36 PM): I don't remember APF being easy in the slightest, especially the end fight, but that was mostly because I was playing a bad singleton.
niemandcw (9:40:38 PM): Yes, that's what I have written down. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:40:46 PM): Just as a heads up to all of you, you should all go replay Babysitting
Slartucker (9:40:47 PM): APF was the last scenario I played when I first bought blades, before giving up on it.  case closed :P
JetGuitarist89 (9:41:14 PM): despite not being polished, there's a lot of innovation packed into that little scenario
dintiradan (9:41:30 PM): (AFK for a while.)
SWmem7775 (9:41:40 PM): If we're looking for variet here, I liked HIM.
SteveMcWhat (9:41:42 PM): Emerald Mountain is quite good, if we want toned down TM
Slartucker (9:41:57 PM): what about Settlers?
SWmem7775 (9:42:01 PM): ick
Saralfur (9:42:01 PM): And EM is pretty
SteveMcWhat (9:42:02 PM): That's another personal favorite. Avatar too, but apparently I'm the only one
niemandcw (9:42:10 PM): A agree that Em is a good choice. 
Saralfur (9:42:14 PM): ITS > Avatar
niemandcw (9:42:18 PM): Avatar I haven't played. 
SteveMcWhat (9:42:42 PM): I think I'm just biased about Avatar. And fuck no Nikki. Fuck no
Saralfur (9:42:47 PM): Avatar was good, but probably the weakest of those three 24 hour scenarios.
niemandcw (9:42:49 PM): ITS?
Saralfur (9:42:55 PM): IMAGINE THIS SCENARIO
niemandcw (9:43:06 PM): Heck no. 
SteveMcWhat (9:43:24 PM): I thought Avatar might beat me in that contest, since it was basically a TM Tale. Apparently nobody else was impressed
Slartucker (9:43:32 PM): okay, I have a new list: foul hordes, undead valley, nephilim mytery...
Saralfur (9:43:37 PM): I wasn't suggesting we include it, I was just saying that it's better than Avatar :p
JetGuitarist89 (9:43:46 PM): three scenarios I have never played
Saralfur (9:43:47 PM): Shitwrecked
Saralfur (9:43:55 PM): Stick that on in and we got a seller
niemandcw (9:43:55 PM): The worst f them all, that. 
SteveMcWhat (9:43:57 PM): Muffins 'n Hell
JetGuitarist89 (9:43:57 PM): Night at the Sol Tavern Inn
SteveMcWhat (9:44:03 PM): RELEASE THAT
Slartucker (9:44:08 PM): Blades of Avernum: Shitwrecked Edition
JetGuitarist89 (9:44:08 PM): I'm remaking it
SWmem7775 (9:44:25 PM): Nikki needs a scenario in there, what do we like best of his?
SteveMcWhat (9:44:39 PM): The one where it ends in like 10 seconds
SteveMcWhat (9:44:46 PM): What was that one called?
Saralfur (9:44:50 PM): Err...
niemandcw (9:44:52 PM): Twilight Valley is usually considered his best, it seems. 
Saralfur (9:44:57 PM): Phew for a minute.
JetGuitarist89 (9:44:59 PM): I haven't played TV
JetGuitarist89 (9:45:02 PM): I really should
SteveMcWhat (9:45:03 PM): Yep, that one.
Slartucker (9:45:04 PM): by a wide margin on CSR.
Saralfur (9:45:05 PM): The only one long enough to even be worth it is TV though.
JetGuitarist89 (9:45:05 PM): damn I'm behind
Saralfur (9:45:37 PM): TV (and I suppose AGB) is my only real scenario anyway, though. The rest were gimmicks.
Slartucker (9:45:43 PM): where the rivers meet?
Slartucker (9:45:52 PM): it's the next highest rated on CSR from a designer not used yet
Saralfur (9:45:56 PM): It'd need polish, Slarty
Saralfur (9:46:00 PM): A lot.
JetGuitarist89 (9:46:02 PM): never played it
niemandcw (9:46:04 PM): WtRM wasn't very well polished, last I heard. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:46:07 PM): I hated those monster graphics
SWmem7775 (9:46:10 PM): Again I say HIM for thralni
Slartucker (9:46:17 PM): well, I'm not sure how many options you have left, then.
SteveMcWhat (9:46:33 PM): HIM if he finishes it, as per my Wolf review
niemandcw (9:46:37 PM): I think HIM is likely the choice from Thralni. 
SWmem7775 (9:46:41 PM): HIM was odd, but in a good way.
SteveMcWhat (9:46:42 PM): Where it sort of looks like i'm tearing him a new asshole....
JetGuitarist89 (9:46:49 PM): what about Stairway?
Saralfur (9:46:49 PM): The last third of HIM should be amazing
Saralfur (9:46:57 PM): Don't worry.
niemandcw (9:47:00 PM): Stairway is not my best work. 
SWmem7775 (9:47:14 PM): but it was neat.
Slartucker (9:47:19 PM): Dintiradan had a good point about Blades of Rogue as well.
niemandcw (9:47:22 PM): It was made in two 10 hour coding binges. 
Slartucker (9:47:48 PM): what about babysitting?  somebody mentioned that
SteveMcWhat (9:48:02 PM): Meh to babysitting
SWmem7775 (9:48:04 PM): I haven't played it yet.
niemandcw (9:48:06 PM): I liked Babysitting. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:48:09 PM): I mentioned it because everyone needs to play it
JetGuitarist89 (9:48:14 PM): but it's buggy
JetGuitarist89 (9:48:14 PM): and unpolished
JetGuitarist89 (9:48:15 PM): and ugly
tomsterthemonstr (9:48:18 PM): Too short to make any kind of impression.
SteveMcWhat (9:48:20 PM): ^^ this
niemandcw (9:48:26 PM): How so? I've played it like 5 times without problems. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:48:33 PM): the priest trapped me in the room
JetGuitarist89 (9:48:36 PM): I had to use the editor
JetGuitarist89 (9:48:41 PM): he also healed me weird
niemandcw (9:48:58 PM): And looked at you funny?
Slartucker (9:49:27 PM): So far we have: Rats, Frostbite, Bahs, Echoes, Embers, Twilight Valley, HIM.  That leaves three slots.  I am still voting for BoR
JetGuitarist89 (9:49:51 PM): I don't know if people could appreciate how hard something like BoR is to make
niemandcw (9:49:57 PM): What's In the Shadow of Dragons like? I haven't played it. 
Saralfur (9:50:01 PM): It's alright
Saralfur (9:50:03 PM): Fun
Slartucker (9:50:08 PM): the point of BoR is to appeal to a different type of player
Slartucker (9:50:14 PM): variety was one of the objectives, right?
prayjose (9:50:14 PM): Polished?
prayjose (9:50:25 PM): SoD, is polished?
JetGuitarist89 (9:50:26 PM): I agree, I agree.
Slartucker (9:50:27 PM): hey, what about witch hunt?
dintiradan (9:50:33 PM): Catching up: Settlers is a decent idea as a "You, yes, even YOU can design" scenario. And a certain someone needs to release Night at the Sol Tavern Inn.
Saralfur (9:50:40 PM): Town design is... average. Certainly not bad, but some of the ending town is. :/
JetGuitarist89 (9:50:43 PM): I said I was remaking it
prayjose (9:50:55 PM): I can help with the town design.
prayjose (9:50:59 PM): And fix it up.
Slartucker (9:51:04 PM): oh - duh.
Slartucker (9:51:05 PM): duh.
niemandcw (9:51:06 PM): Settlers isn't worth including if we're showing off our best stuff. 
Slartucker (9:51:07 PM): HLPM
Saralfur (9:51:14 PM): How about The Cave of No Return?
tomsterthemonstr (9:51:20 PM): Hah! That can be my contribution!
tomsterthemonstr (9:51:25 PM): HLPM.
niemandcw (9:51:34 PM): I liked Cave of No Return, but many people seem to find it dull. 
Saralfur (9:51:40 PM): I thought it was fun.
JetGuitarist89 (9:51:41 PM): I thought it was alright
JetGuitarist89 (9:51:49 PM): I don't think it's outstanding by any means though
dintiradan (9:51:58 PM): Still catching up: TV is good include, a writing-heavy scenario by an actual writer. And yes, the HLPM _must_ be included.
Slartucker (9:52:58 PM): at this point I'd like to point out that every scenario with a CSR rating of 7.0 or higher is spoken for -- either it is included, vetoed, or its author has another scenario in already.  (unless ISOD is accepted)
JetGuitarist89 (9:53:14 PM): I would suggest a medium for players to design their own custom gear
JetGuitarist89 (9:53:24 PM): since that's easy, and was something fun for me when I was younger
niemandcw (9:53:37 PM): Cannot be readily made in a pure scenario form. 
Slartucker (9:53:45 PM): do the 7 included so far cover all the level range?
niemandcw (9:54:05 PM): TV and FB are essentially no level. 
dintiradan (9:54:14 PM): Just have a crapload of items available, and give the player the impression that they're making their own custom one.
niemandcw (9:54:14 PM): Embers is 10-15
niemandcw (9:54:28 PM): Rats is 1-5
JetGuitarist89 (9:54:29 PM): so Artifact Hall too
prayjose (9:54:35 PM): You can however take standard non-magic items and allow players to "enhance" them for a cost which results in enchanted weaponry.
Slartucker (9:54:41 PM): the best utility scenarios are no-brainers, I'd think
prayjose (9:54:45 PM): A lot of custom items to code...
niemandcw (9:55:03 PM): And you wouldn't cover the space of possible items at all well. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:55:14 PM): alright, let's just think about adding that as a simple tutorial
niemandcw (9:55:21 PM): E:R is 20-25
niemandcw (9:55:54 PM): Good point ES, that should be a step in the build-your-own-scenario. 
niemandcw (9:56:06 PM): Bahs is 35-45
prayjose (9:56:18 PM): What covers the 25-25 gap?
JetGuitarist89 (9:56:25 PM): ZKR
JetGuitarist89 (9:56:29 PM): :-D
niemandcw (9:56:34 PM): Narrow gap there. 
prayjose (9:56:37 PM): I was thinking custom scenarios.
prayjose (9:56:45 PM): 25-35...
prayjose (9:56:46 PM): *Sigh*
JetGuitarist89 (9:56:48 PM): backwater?
Slartucker (9:57:20 PM): what's HIM?
niemandcw (9:57:23 PM): HIM is 15-25
Slartucker (9:57:34 PM): so 5-10 and 25-35 are the gaps
JetGuitarist89 (9:57:43 PM): what about Backwater Calls?
JetGuitarist89 (9:57:47 PM): isn't that 25-35?
JetGuitarist89 (9:57:56 PM): or am I just not remembering it correctly?
niemandcw (9:58:07 PM): 30-45 actually, it seems. 
SWmem7775 (9:58:19 PM): Witch Hunt wasn't terrible. does that fit in the 5-10?
Slartucker (9:58:33 PM): was it not terrible, or was it good?
niemandcw (9:58:40 PM): No it's another 1-5
JetGuitarist89 (9:58:54 PM): I can think of one scenario that fits 5-10... :/
SWmem7775 (9:59:03 PM): My review was 6.5 so a little lower than average
Saralfur (9:59:08 PM): ED?
Slartucker (9:59:25 PM): VODT?
niemandcw (9:59:32 PM): Express Delivery is about it for 3rd party as far as I know. 
JetGuitarist89 (9:59:47 PM): Crescent Valley?
Saralfur (9:59:49 PM): ED is 5-15
JanusFace2Face (9:59:58 PM): Hee hee, back.
niemandcw (9:59:58 PM): However, it is true that VoDT does that job, and isn't going anywhere. 
Saralfur (10:00:02 PM): Cresent (sic) Valley sucks.
niemandcw (10:00:14 PM): It should not be considered. 
dintiradan (10:00:18 PM): We don't have to fit every gap in the level range. We just have to make sure that by the time a party leaves one scenario in the Gold Pack, it's able to enter another one.
JetGuitarist89 (10:00:25 PM): I know, but it's eeriely disturbing
Slartucker (10:00:53 PM): what about "BoA Gold Box"?
dintiradan (10:01:03 PM): Heh.
niemandcw (10:01:04 PM): APF is 1-10. 
niemandcw (10:01:18 PM): Should we consider it, or had we decided not to?
SteveMcWhat (10:01:21 PM): *Back*
Slartucker (10:01:21 PM): ugh.
SWmem7775 (10:01:24 PM): I liked it
SWmem7775 (10:01:31 PM): goes for the puzzle bufs
SteveMcWhat (10:01:38 PM): Oh, custom item creator is totally doable using those hacks. At least I could do the windows one I'm sure
niemandcw (10:02:04 PM): You found a reliable way to write something besides zeros?
SteveMcWhat (10:02:45 PM): I thought stains could write nonzeros? Or could that... Oh fuck, that wrote only powers of two, that's right
niemandcw (10:03:14 PM): And cannot write certain combinations of them. Yeah. 
SteveMcWhat (10:03:36 PM): Umhmm. Damn, I forgot that complication
niemandcw (10:03:44 PM): Mind you, zeros are useful, but they only go so far. 
SteveMcWhat (10:03:51 PM): It's enough for lighting
SteveMcWhat (10:03:57 PM): And... that's about it. :P
dintiradan (10:04:27 PM): "When I was your age, we didn't have this fancy 'binary'. We just had our zeroes, and we liked it that way."
niemandcw (10:05:06 PM): There are other. . . tricks, but they aren't terribly generally useful, and I'd prefer to keep a surprise or two up my sleeve. 
niemandcw (10:05:41 PM): Plus they can be really tough to pull off. Like I haven't quite pinned down the details yet. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:06:20 PM): Do we have a complete list yet?
niemandcw (10:06:39 PM): What I have is Rats, Frostbite, Bahs, Echoes, Embers, Twilight Valley, HIM, and the HLPM. 
JanusFace2Face (10:06:54 PM): Question: Do you really trust my level rankings for E:R?
SteveMcWhat (10:06:56 PM): I once made an apple make boat noises when you equipped it. I have no fucking clue how I did that
Saralfur (10:07:05 PM): Dude
dintiradan (10:07:14 PM): It was the skribbane, dude.
Saralfur (10:07:16 PM): That would be the nest accessory evar
niemandcw (10:07:16 PM): I equip apples all the time. 
Saralfur (10:07:32 PM): best*
SWmem7775 (10:07:42 PM): add APF to the list
prayjose (10:07:46 PM): HLPM needs a facelift.
tomsterthemonstr (10:07:57 PM): I'm thinking of closing the Library.
JetGuitarist89 (10:07:57 PM): I think I beat Echoes with a HLPM party at level 15
JetGuitarist89 (10:08:01 PM): that was in the beta though
JetGuitarist89 (10:08:14 PM): and a bug prevented me from fighting the final boss
dintiradan (10:08:23 PM): Keep the library if we're using it in the Gold release.
Saralfur (10:08:35 PM): i like the library
tomsterthemonstr (10:08:37 PM): It's really, really out of date.
dintiradan (10:08:37 PM): Besides, the library is good reading.
niemandcw (10:08:54 PM): I like it, but there are getting to be too many scenarios to track easily. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:08:55 PM): I haven't played any scenarios in ages, so it's hard for me to write much of anything about anything recent.
Slartucker (10:08:56 PM): I'm sure someone would volunteer to be the 'caretaker' and write new 'books' for it
Saralfur (10:09:14 PM): Heck, I wouldn't mind, if it came to it.
tomsterthemonstr (10:09:17 PM): If anyone wants to e-mail me new books, I'll update it.
Slartucker (10:09:19 PM): the librarian, even.
Saralfur (10:09:25 PM): I'd want a cameo, though
Slartucker (10:09:25 PM): ceiling librarian... wall ogre librarian?
Saralfur (10:09:31 PM): Damn, sniped by Slarty :p
tomsterthemonstr (10:09:52 PM): Cameos in the HLPM can be given away like candy.
dintiradan (10:09:52 PM): Have two rival librarians in the HLPM library, each keeping their own books on each side.
tomsterthemonstr (10:10:03 PM): I think Drakey's in there for no reason.
Saralfur (10:10:07 PM): With kittens in the middle?
dintiradan (10:10:09 PM): Chance for some good, funny dialog.
dintiradan (10:10:23 PM): Nioca the Crystal Soul, if I remember correctly.
prayjose (10:10:24 PM): Hmmm...  Kel, mind if I redid the HLPM's look?  I'll move over the code and redo the town(s).
tomsterthemonstr (10:10:30 PM): Only if I can call that part of the Library the Perilous Carpet.
Slartucker (10:10:31 PM): and they give out quests to have you return some random book they left in some demon's possession halfway across terrestavernum.  oh, wait...
tomsterthemonstr (10:10:32 PM): Or something.
(10:10:44 PM) tyranicus86 has entered the room.
tomsterthemonstr (10:10:45 PM): What exactly are you going to do to its look?
niemandcw (10:10:46 PM): Oh hey! Make the HLPM's books pedestals, with a limited number per town. 
tyranicus86 (10:10:49 PM): Hello all
SWmem7775 (10:11:02 PM): hi ya
niemandcw (10:11:06 PM): That way you can count toward the town's string limit, not the scenario's. 
prayjose (10:11:09 PM): Split into 4 more distinct areas.
niemandcw (10:11:14 PM): Hey, Tyran. 
Saralfur (10:11:16 PM): No, pedestals would be teh suck.
Saralfur (10:11:19 PM): I like the books.
niemandcw (10:11:23 PM): Separate reading rooms. 
Slartucker (10:11:24 PM): HLPM 2: The HLPM is visited by the black shade of stupidity
tomsterthemonstr (10:11:40 PM): THAT'S IT
niemandcw (10:11:42 PM): Trouble is Kel, can only have a limited number of books if there are going to be any other items. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:11:46 PM): THAT'S MY NEXT SCEANRIO
prayjose (10:11:55 PM): Hey Tyr
tomsterthemonstr (10:12:06 PM): More distinct areas?
tomsterthemonstr (10:12:14 PM): I mean, they're already different towns.
prayjose (10:12:29 PM): They are!  I'm a few versions out of date then...
dintiradan (10:12:34 PM): Pedestals would make it easier to read the books; instead of looking at the shelf, picking up the book, and then using it, you just have to walk by a pedestal.
niemandcw (10:12:47 PM): But you can make as many towns to make up the library as you need. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:12:50 PM): I could make it all work by Search-Block instead of real items.
niemandcw (10:13:00 PM): Exactly. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:13:04 PM): Dahak: The current version is 1.2.something.
Slartucker (10:13:05 PM): really the easiest thing is to just read the txt file
dintiradan (10:13:19 PM): Slarty: But that takes the fun out of it.
niemandcw (10:13:19 PM): That wouldn't have the same class, though. 
prayjose (10:13:26 PM): I have 1.1.2...
niemandcw (10:13:39 PM): Isn't it now like 1.2.3.4?
tomsterthemonstr (10:13:50 PM): It's 1.2.5.1. :-p
dintiradan (10:13:59 PM): What was the release where you split everything up into multiple towns? 2.1.x, or 2.2.x?
tomsterthemonstr (10:14:09 PM): The separate towns was 1.2.
dintiradan (10:14:14 PM): *1.1.x or 1.2.x
SteveMcWhat (10:14:29 PM): Wow, the HLPM had seperate towns when I showed up. I'm a newb
prayjose (10:14:35 PM): Huh...  BRB.
niemandcw (10:14:37 PM): Kel, are you planning to be like Knuth and have the version converge on some number, then?
prayjose (10:14:41 PM): Going to d/l HLPM
SteveMcWhat (10:14:43 PM): Also, I use three e's in separate.
(10:14:57 PM) SWmem7775 has left the room.
JetGuitarist89 (10:15:09 PM): Laz when did you join?
tomsterthemonstr (10:15:27 PM): The change from 1.2.5 to 1.2.5.1 was really ridiculously small, so I didn't want to call it 1.2.6.
tyranicus86 (10:15:28 PM): Better than 4 E's
dintiradan (10:15:29 PM): Niemand, there'd be, like, three people who'd get the joke if he did.
tomsterthemonstr (10:15:42 PM): Apparently he joined after 8/23/05, which is when 1.2 came out.
SteveMcWhat (10:16:28 PM): August 2005. But I don't think I was involved with blades until early 06
niemandcw (10:16:36 PM): Actually it was 8/8/05
Saralfur (10:16:56 PM): alright, i can see sunlight, i'm off to bed
tomsterthemonstr (10:17:01 PM): Whoops. I duplicated a date in the version history.
Slartucker (10:17:04 PM): ok, it's bedtime
JetGuitarist89 (10:17:09 PM): good night sweet prince
Slartucker (10:17:14 PM): gah.  gnite folks
JetGuitarist89 (10:17:14 PM): princes
dintiradan (10:17:14 PM): Night, you two.
niemandcw (10:17:16 PM): Good night. 
Saralfur (10:17:22 PM): slarty, i said to leave it a few minutes after i said night :p
Saralfur (10:17:25 PM): now they'll know
Slartucker (10:17:37 PM): *smack*
JetGuitarist89 (10:17:44 PM): =-O
JanusFace2Face (10:17:52 PM): So, it seems like we've easily wound down.
JanusFace2Face (10:17:55 PM): What did we get done?
Saralfur (10:18:00 PM): I'll save the log up to this point and stick it online somewhere for anybody who wants it.
Slartucker (10:18:05 PM): TM's mom?
dintiradan (10:18:09 PM): Gah.
SteveMcWhat (10:18:10 PM): I think the "build a scenario" had promise.
JetGuitarist89 (10:18:15 PM): I think we decided BoA gold, + a list
tyranicus86 (10:18:20 PM): When did you turn int me, Nikki? :P
JetGuitarist89 (10:18:23 PM): and we're currently thinking about a tutorial
tyranicus86 (10:18:25 PM): *into
JetGuitarist89 (10:18:31 PM): which we'll probably flesh out a little later
Saralfur (10:18:35 PM): The build-a-scenario deffo has promise
niemandcw (10:18:47 PM): I agree, and I'll do some more thinking on it. 
prayjose (10:18:52 PM): No offense Kel, but the towns are still...  bleh.  I'll redo anyways and you can say yea or nay.
JetGuitarist89 (10:18:59 PM): maybe some sticky topics in both BoA and BoAeditor boards
dintiradan (10:19:10 PM): BoA newsletter plug in the BoA Gold release.
tomsterthemonstr (10:19:18 PM): Tell me what you're going to do to them.
prayjose (10:19:26 PM): Visual redesign.
tomsterthemonstr (10:19:35 PM): That's not very specific.
JanusFace2Face (10:19:45 PM): Okay, so we're going to rearrange CSR, set up BoA Gold with a tutorial scenario, resources and our best scenarios, and...
prayjose (10:19:45 PM): I know.  My boss hates that too.
SteveMcWhat (10:19:54 PM): Queer eye for the straight HLPM
Saralfur (10:19:57 PM): Does the HLPM need reworking I mean, it's meant to be functional.
Saralfur (10:20:00 PM): Not pretty.
prayjose (10:20:03 PM): So?
niemandcw (10:20:09 PM): TM: Also create the mailing list. 
JanusFace2Face (10:20:14 PM): Okay.
prayjose (10:20:21 PM): Consider the marketing impact.
SteveMcWhat (10:20:22 PM): I missed the CSR discussion. Was there any conclusion?
Saralfur (10:20:22 PM): That was phase 1, TM
JetGuitarist89 (10:20:24 PM): as a catalog to stuff that never gets released
JetGuitarist89 (10:20:25 PM): no
SteveMcWhat (10:20:28 PM): Any changes actually being made?
dintiradan (10:20:29 PM): What Nikki said. The current batch of players are used to the existing one.
JetGuitarist89 (10:20:36 PM): let's just start with gold
JanusFace2Face (10:20:48 PM): This is all a good start.
JetGuitarist89 (10:20:49 PM): and then move onto tutorials, mail list, and changes
(10:20:53 PM) Slartucker has left the room.
JanusFace2Face (10:21:09 PM): Rearranging the CSR is easy--bug Aran.
niemandcw (10:21:18 PM): The mailing list will take like 5 minutes to actually create. 
JanusFace2Face (10:21:28 PM): I was thinking of using riseup.net. :P
Saralfur (10:21:29 PM): yeah, and you started the topic at SV, so thats under way, TM
JanusFace2Face (10:21:52 PM): Alright.
JanusFace2Face (10:21:57 PM): I am satisfied.
JanusFace2Face (10:22:02 PM): --Shylock
(10:22:05 PM) JanusFace2Face has left the room.
JetGuitarist89 (10:22:14 PM): I would also like to talk about how to conduct the 24 hour contest
(10:22:25 PM) prayjose has left the room.
tomsterthemonstr (10:22:28 PM): Then start talking.
JetGuitarist89 (10:22:37 PM): I'm psyched?
Saralfur (10:22:41 PM): alright, i'm off for reals.
Saralfur (10:22:43 PM): night guys.
niemandcw (10:22:49 PM): See you. 
Saralfur (10:22:50 PM): *Saves and leaves*
tyranicus86 (10:22:55 PM): night Nikki
(10:23:01 PM) Saralfur has left the room.
dintiradan (10:23:02 PM): G'night.
dintiradan (10:23:14 PM): NO. I WAS TOO SLOW!
dintiradan (10:23:27 PM): NOW HE'LL NEVER KNOW MY TRUE FEELINGS FOR HIM!
JetGuitarist89 (10:23:28 PM): If we're working on expanding the number of players and designers, we should advertise this contest as something fun
JetGuitarist89 (10:23:47 PM): twitter them
niemandcw (10:24:15 PM): I think that I can hopefully help with judging, especially if we have the added interest value of making the reviews in a more entertaining form. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:24:38 PM): I think that we should do something radical with the judging.
tomsterthemonstr (10:24:50 PM): Namely, not have a winner.
tyranicus86 (10:24:53 PM): Pass/Fail! :-P
tomsterthemonstr (10:24:56 PM): Nor even rank the scenarios.
JetGuitarist89 (10:25:07 PM): I still think LP's would be fun
niemandcw (10:25:15 PM): How about we test the scenarios. . . on burning laptops! Which we juggle!
tomsterthemonstr (10:25:16 PM): We should just write extended reviews, spoiler and non-spoiler versions.
JetGuitarist89 (10:25:23 PM): plus, people wouldn't have to actually know anything about BoA to enjoy reading about them
niemandcw (10:25:32 PM): The LP idea does look fun. 
dintiradan (10:25:33 PM): Kel: Hmm. I like.
tomsterthemonstr (10:25:46 PM): I'd actually participate if we did that.
dintiradan (10:25:59 PM): And yes, LPs are fun. Themed ones are especially great.
JetGuitarist89 (10:26:14 PM): If we did have a winner, we could give him a title or something
niemandcw (10:26:31 PM): Like a custom title on SW?
JetGuitarist89 (10:26:41 PM): Maybe not that far
JetGuitarist89 (10:26:53 PM): but maybe, if possible
dintiradan (10:26:59 PM): 'Grand Poobah of Blades'
tyranicus86 (10:27:05 PM): Niemand, that would work if custom titles on SW weren't broken. :P
niemandcw (10:27:07 PM): Because we would basically need *i to sign off on that, and there are . . . technical difficulties. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:27:45 PM): If we went with the extended-reviews thing, we wouldn't need rules about designers not also being judges.
tomsterthemonstr (10:28:01 PM): It would just be a bunch of designers and a few players making a bunch of scenarios for each other and commenting on them.
niemandcw (10:28:04 PM): That would be a good point, I think. 
dintiradan (10:28:15 PM): Designers are allowed to be judges, if I recall correctly. They just can't judge their own works.
dintiradan (10:28:26 PM): Could be wrong.
niemandcw (10:28:40 PM): Yeah, that never struck me as a very sensible way to run it, but it's what Laz said. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:28:45 PM): I don't even know. I haven't been following the rules.
JetGuitarist89 (10:30:16 PM): If not some sort of LP, extended reviews is a definate yes
tomsterthemonstr (10:30:45 PM): Sweet! I did something!
niemandcw (10:30:52 PM): Aside: Ideas for the build-a-scenario: Teach the player about the data script by having them create a weapon to fight the boss with. Have them cross a river by creating a bridge, and then editing it in. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:31:26 PM): Good idea.
tomsterthemonstr (10:31:33 PM): I can totally see the dialog right now.
tomsterthemonstr (10:31:42 PM): You come up to a sword on an altar (or in a box or something)
tomsterthemonstr (10:31:49 PM): pick it up and see that it does 1-1 damage.
tomsterthemonstr (10:32:02 PM): Message pops up that says you're going to get creamed if you don't edit the weapon.
niemandcw (10:32:41 PM): Ooh. design a creature to attach to your party. Creature definitions+joined npcs. 
dintiradan (10:32:49 PM): Oh, hey, so I've been misreading this tutorial idea all this time. That _is_ a good idea.
JetGuitarist89 (10:32:56 PM): One very important question: do changes you make in scripts and the editor change every time you load a scenario?
niemandcw (10:33:14 PM): Also: Program a staircase to reach another level of a building. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:33:14 PM): You may have to leave the town or something.
niemandcw (10:33:16 PM): Yes. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:33:24 PM): okay, thank goodness
JetGuitarist89 (10:33:39 PM): we could probably simulate that, if needed
niemandcw (10:33:58 PM): Clarification: There might be issues if you tried to switch which script was used, say for a creature or if you altered the memory cells. 
niemandcw (10:34:09 PM): Otherwise you should be fine. 
niemandcw (10:34:47 PM): Editing the sword would almost certainly require putting it down, and maybe leaving the town, but I bet we can handle it reasonably well. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:35:06 PM): This is a cool idea. I want to work on it.
SteveMcWhat (10:35:14 PM): I think the sword will change in your hands
tomsterthemonstr (10:35:21 PM): I bet this could be accomplished collaboratively.
SteveMcWhat (10:35:22 PM): Editing terrain is the only problem I think.
JetGuitarist89 (10:35:24 PM): something like an in-scenario "apply changes" button
SteveMcWhat (10:35:37 PM): Oh, and I'm open to any changes to how the 24 is conducted
dintiradan (10:35:43 PM): Teleport you out of the town, then teleport you back in.
niemandcw (10:35:55 PM): I think you have is backwards lazarus. Terrain should change instantly when the game is reloaded. 
SteveMcWhat (10:36:14 PM): I was truly kidding when I said I was doing this to beat down on you guys.
niemandcw (10:36:14 PM): Dinti: can't quite be done, but we can come close. 
SteveMcWhat (10:36:19 PM): (Kind of.) :D
tomsterthemonstr (10:36:22 PM): We'd need a bunch of failsafes in case someone really screws up badly.
niemandcw (10:36:49 PM): That's a good point, and we'll need to think of a good way to handle it. 
SteveMcWhat (10:37:00 PM): No, I'm fairly certain loaded towns won't change
tomsterthemonstr (10:37:07 PM): I'm thinking of a special ability that resets flags and stuff.
niemandcw (10:37:14 PM): If worst came to worst, we build a correct copy with each step completed. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:37:22 PM): failsafe: link to the forums
SteveMcWhat (10:37:32 PM): I remember playing an old version of a town in EoR with the new town's script
dintiradan (10:37:35 PM): (Stuff to the effect of Niemand and Slithy's comments.)
JetGuitarist89 (10:37:39 PM): >:-)
SteveMcWhat (10:37:41 PM): It was funky.
niemandcw (10:37:43 PM): Then, if you totally screw things up, the directions say: 'Go this this webpage and download solution 7'.
tomsterthemonstr (10:38:00 PM): Yeah, that works.
JetGuitarist89 (10:38:06 PM):  We make it impossible and lure people to our website
dintiradan (10:38:17 PM): (Seriously people, stop sniping me.)
tomsterthemonstr (10:38:18 PM): Maybe a version for each completed town or something.
JetGuitarist89 (10:38:35 PM): assimilating them into our forces
JetGuitarist89 (10:38:50 PM): the tutorial should be split up into tutorials
niemandcw (10:38:56 PM): that sounds about right. We'll see exactly how it needs to be done as the details crystallize. 
niemandcw (10:39:10 PM): Split up how ES?
JetGuitarist89 (10:39:18 PM): into scripting sections
dintiradan (10:39:27 PM): yo dawg, i heard you liked tutorials, so i put a tutorial in your tutorial
JetGuitarist89 (10:39:32 PM): how to define a section is up to debate
tomsterthemonstr (10:40:14 PM): I put a tutorial in your MOM'S tutorial.
tyranicus86 (10:40:22 PM): Well, I'm going to go find something to eat.  Have a good night, all
JetGuitarist89 (10:40:27 PM): good night
dintiradan (10:40:32 PM): G'night.
niemandcw (10:40:33 PM): Good night. 
(10:40:40 PM) tyranicus86 has left the room.
niemandcw (10:41:01 PM): So we do need a simple overarching plot. First: Who's the bad guy?
tomsterthemonstr (10:41:14 PM): Rentar!
JetGuitarist89 (10:41:14 PM): Jeff
JetGuitarist89 (10:41:17 PM): Jeff is the enemy
JetGuitarist89 (10:41:29 PM): I swear that he'd get a big kick out of that
dintiradan (10:41:30 PM): Jeff, as a Crystal Soul and a consort to Rentar
niemandcw (10:41:33 PM): I'm thinking Rentar. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:41:42 PM): That was a really bad joke.
tomsterthemonstr (10:41:47 PM): Don't take me seriously.
JetGuitarist89 (10:41:49 PM): but if we used Jeff, it'd be like we were sticking it to the man
niemandcw (10:41:56 PM): Now, why must she be killed? (You know the answer to this one)
JetGuitarist89 (10:41:58 PM): (Jeff is the man)
dintiradan (10:41:58 PM): Garzahd is his uncle and Dorikas is his and Rentar's love child.
JetGuitarist89 (10:42:19 PM): Make it a league of evil
JetGuitarist89 (10:42:22 PM): run by Jeff
JetGuitarist89 (10:42:37 PM): Rentar, Garzahd, and Dorikas will be there
niemandcw (10:42:39 PM): That does have promise. 
niemandcw (10:42:53 PM): So why must we kill the league of evil?
dintiradan (10:42:55 PM): (Seriously though, sticking it to The Man wouldn't be the best way to get his support down the road.)
JetGuitarist89 (10:43:03 PM): I swear he'd love it
JetGuitarist89 (10:43:17 PM): provided that it's in good taste
niemandcw (10:43:19 PM): (Oh yeah, I meant a league omitting Jeff.)
dintiradan (10:43:40 PM): Well, maybe he wouldn't mind if we did something like give the Scorched Earth Party a cameo.
JetGuitarist89 (10:43:57 PM): Jeff doesn't want a bunch of rebel designers running around, showing him up
JetGuitarist89 (10:43:59 PM): that's the premise
niemandcw (10:44:02 PM): That sounds like a name for our putative league. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:44:09 PM): so he throws all his worst creations at you
JetGuitarist89 (10:44:17 PM): i.e Rentar, Garzahd, Dorikas, etc.
niemandcw (10:45:07 PM): Perhaps the Scorched Earth party plans to blow up the moon? That's always a good one. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:46:02 PM): I prefer my idea, but I can see that I'm outnumbered on this one so far
dintiradan (10:46:19 PM): By the way, how soon did Ephesos leave? He was the one who instigated this chat.
JetGuitarist89 (10:46:28 PM): early
niemandcw (10:46:34 PM): He left after only about an hour. Said he might be back. 
niemandcw (10:46:53 PM): Okay: Where is the lair of the evil doers?
tomsterthemonstr (10:47:38 PM): Okay, so can we get some halfway decent evildoers first?
JetGuitarist89 (10:47:39 PM): what's one of the biggest mysteries in Jeff's games?
SteveMcWhat (10:47:47 PM): Perhaps more importantly we should decide what tasks we want to demonstrate?
SteveMcWhat (10:48:05 PM): And make a plot that covers all of them.
tomsterthemonstr (10:48:14 PM): Basic scenario tasks.
tomsterthemonstr (10:48:16 PM): Making items.
dintiradan (10:48:18 PM): Terrain editing - build a bridge across the chasm to get to their fortress.
tomsterthemonstr (10:48:20 PM): Editing dialogue.
niemandcw (10:48:22 PM): Draw terrain. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:48:34 PM): Let's start with drawing terrain and making/placing items
niemandcw (10:48:39 PM): Dinti: I think we need that lesson to happen early. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:48:40 PM): get people familar with the physical editor
JetGuitarist89 (10:48:45 PM): laying down states
SteveMcWhat (10:48:50 PM): Ok, for drawing we have terrains, floors, and heights
JetGuitarist89 (10:48:57 PM): next we tackle the hardest part of scripting: flow/ordering
niemandcw (10:48:57 PM): drawing a bridge should probably be to get out of the starting town. 
dintiradan (10:48:58 PM): (Assuming all the action happens in the fortress)
SteveMcWhat (10:49:15 PM): There should be an obstacle for each. Perhaps some fight could involve dumping a baddie in lava or something.
niemandcw (10:49:17 PM): ES: Isn't that jumping into the deep end?
JetGuitarist89 (10:49:26 PM): I don't know
JetGuitarist89 (10:49:33 PM): I recall that being the hardest obstacle for me
JetGuitarist89 (10:49:47 PM): I started with physical editor stuff, then item making, then dialogue, then simple scripts
niemandcw (10:49:49 PM): As Kel says, we do need to cover dialogue. That probably means a simple friendly town. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:50:01 PM): agreed
SteveMcWhat (10:50:14 PM): Terrain script. Put a script on a door that doesn't have one
SteveMcWhat (10:50:21 PM): The baddies took off the script to make their fortress impenetrable. :P
JetGuitarist89 (10:50:26 PM): :-D
tomsterthemonstr (10:50:27 PM): Heh.
niemandcw (10:50:27 PM): It can also be there that they create an NPC to join their party. 
dintiradan (10:50:35 PM): (Not in any particular order) Creature placement - Given an impossible fight, you need to add a few high level creatures and make them fight for you.
niemandcw (10:50:38 PM): Laz: Good one. 
dintiradan (10:51:01 PM): One of the dialog tasks should teach you how quests work.
dintiradan (10:51:18 PM): Special items need to be included somewhere.
JetGuitarist89 (10:51:24 PM): dintiradan, we should make that a more ambiguous obstacle
niemandcw (10:51:26 PM): What about town entrance lesson? Make it point to the atrium instead of straight to a dungeon or something. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:51:29 PM): One of the tricks that we could use a fair bit is to have good code in existence but commented out.
dintiradan (10:51:42 PM): Or skeleton code at the very least.
tomsterthemonstr (10:51:55 PM): That's how we could have dialogue done, anyway.
dintiradan (10:52:03 PM): I used to hate skeleton code, but now I see its use.
tomsterthemonstr (10:52:31 PM): They don't have to write the dialogue. They just have to uncomment the text and design states/nodes to make it appear in-game.
niemandcw (10:52:38 PM): What coing principles do we need to cover? Definitely the uses of SDFs and script variables. 
niemandcw (10:52:51 PM): *coding, not coing
JetGuitarist89 (10:53:03 PM): if we don't make Jeff the villain (which I prefer and I'd think he'd like), we need to, at least, make him a protagonist
niemandcw (10:53:08 PM): Branching and loops certainly. 
niemandcw (10:53:19 PM): maybe his creations have gotten out of hand?
SteveMcWhat (10:53:20 PM): Yes, flags. Add a flag when the boss dies so everyone will remember what you did
tomsterthemonstr (10:53:33 PM): Jeff is the Bob!
JetGuitarist89 (10:53:41 PM): I don't know where to start with this, but one of the most difficult things about code is just how to organize it
JetGuitarist89 (10:53:46 PM): how is it set up, how does it work
niemandcw (10:53:48 PM): Heh. We could make them kill the boss twice because the flag isn't set the first time. 
SteveMcWhat (10:53:50 PM): I think conditionals, flags, loops should come last
niemandcw (10:53:56 PM): Agreed. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:53:59 PM): Once it clicks, one takes this principle for granted
tomsterthemonstr (10:54:01 PM): NIemand: totally.
niemandcw (10:55:08 PM): Should we even try to cover creature scripting? I love doing it, but a lot of people argue that it's the hardest to get the grasp of. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:55:22 PM): Maybe something really simple.
SteveMcWhat (10:55:28 PM): Too hard imo
JetGuitarist89 (10:55:29 PM): to make them understand flags, we should have them put something in the start state that will keep playing until they flag it
tomsterthemonstr (10:55:41 PM): Creature has a kill_char call that you have to delete in order to beat the baddie.
JetGuitarist89 (10:55:44 PM): or make a message that says: put an sdf on this or it wont stop playing
tomsterthemonstr (10:56:00 PM): Yeah, I was figuring that flags would happen slowly.
dintiradan (10:56:14 PM): RE: Creature scripts: Do we want this tutorial to teach them everything about scenario design, or just how to make a bare bones scenario?
tomsterthemonstr (10:56:14 PM): First you just get them to uncomment something that makes a message only play once.
tomsterthemonstr (10:56:20 PM): Then you get them to do it themselves.
dintiradan (10:56:31 PM): If it's the latter, teaching them how the kill state works should be good enough.
tomsterthemonstr (10:56:37 PM): I was thinking bare bones plus.
niemandcw (10:57:03 PM): What about having the boss have a damgerous scripted ability, which targets the party. Have the player delibeerately alter it to target the boss's minions instead. 
tomsterthemonstr (10:57:06 PM): Like, here's what you need to know to make a bare bones scenario, and here are some hints at other things to consider.
JetGuitarist89 (10:57:20 PM): I agree with the barebones stuff
niemandcw (10:57:22 PM): True, we should keep that in mind. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:57:31 PM): once they're interested, they can always get help from us
SteveMcWhat (10:58:08 PM): I like Kel's idea for the creature script, but it doesn't even have to be something deadly. Just a message_dialog in the start state that becomes way too fucking annoying without removing it
dintiradan (10:58:21 PM): Have the scenario itself tell players how to do the bare bones stuff, but include an extra readme file that tells them how to do the advanced stuff.
JetGuitarist89 (10:58:43 PM): I couldn't imagine breaking creature scripting down into something easily explainable
JetGuitarist89 (10:58:55 PM): it's taken me a couple years just to get a remote grasp of how it works
tomsterthemonstr (10:59:08 PM): I don't know what's so hard about creature scripting.
SteveMcWhat (10:59:10 PM): Creature scripts are hard when you're tying to make them fight and shit
niemandcw (10:59:14 PM): I think we shouldn't try to do anything more complicated than an action when the creature dies. 
JetGuitarist89 (10:59:17 PM): what Laz said
SteveMcWhat (10:59:29 PM): But just looking at the pieces of it and recognizing that the start_state is called every turn is important
JetGuitarist89 (10:59:31 PM): I'm close to finishing that rogue script, which alters behavior
SteveMcWhat (10:59:36 PM): Actually that's a lesson in itself. How the states work
JetGuitarist89 (10:59:37 PM): it actually works!
SteveMcWhat (10:59:49 PM): Start/init etc.
niemandcw (11:00:00 PM): Cool ES. Yeah, we do need to do that Laz. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:00:06 PM): Probably to be done with towns first.
niemandcw (11:00:14 PM): What could we have the player do simply with those?
niemandcw (11:00:26 PM): Definitely with town scripts. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:00:37 PM): Maybe name some characters or something.
JetGuitarist89 (11:00:45 PM): don't allow the player to exit a town via EXIT_STATE
SteveMcWhat (11:00:48 PM): Uh, when you enter the final base there's something in the init state that summons an army
niemandcw (11:00:52 PM): That was my thought as well for the INIT_STATE. 
SteveMcWhat (11:01:03 PM): So you enter and get a message like "This doesn't look so good..." and have to reenter with out that code
niemandcw (11:01:18 PM): Although we could do that too. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:01:19 PM): And maybe change it to making your own invisible allies appear!
niemandcw (11:01:50 PM): What about a town script START_STATE?
JetGuitarist89 (11:02:01 PM): I'm still up for an annoying message_dialog
niemandcw (11:02:37 PM): It should tell you again and again about an anoying sound the party hears or something. 
dintiradan (11:02:46 PM): Just thinking - one of the biggest challenges with this project is having the luser edit the scenario code, without breaking the stuff we need to keep in. We have to make sure that whenever we ask the user to change the way a state works, none of _our_ logic should be in that state.
niemandcw (11:02:51 PM): "You hear water dripping in the distance"
dintiradan (11:03:20 PM): (Which is easier said than done.)
SteveMcWhat (11:03:25 PM): That's what set state continue is for
tomsterthemonstr (11:03:25 PM): Maybe recommend that the user back up the script all the freakin' time.
niemandcw (11:03:30 PM): Dinti: What about "//DO NOT EDIT BELOW THIS LINE"
tomsterthemonstr (11:03:39 PM): Or that. :-p
SteveMcWhat (11:03:43 PM): Yes, what Kel said. All the states that include edit code go on top
niemandcw (11:03:55 PM): "//INSERT LESSON 8 HERE"
SteveMcWhat (11:03:57 PM): So they don't have to dig through. The guts are below, and they just point to the other nodes
JetGuitarist89 (11:04:07 PM): and we can always include plenty of comments in the script
niemandcw (11:04:08 PM): I think thats a good way to do it. 
niemandcw (11:04:30 PM): Definitely. Every aspect of the script should contain copious documentation. 
SteveMcWhat (11:04:45 PM): The biggest obstacle I see is going back and forth between editor and game without making it a hassle
SteveMcWhat (11:04:49 PM): Or destroying the fun aspect
dintiradan (11:05:04 PM): Designing a scenario == destroying the fun aspect.
dintiradan (11:05:07 PM): At least for me.
niemandcw (11:05:08 PM): I fear there's not too much we can do there. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:05:10 PM): Having 'em both open in windows should be okay.
SteveMcWhat (11:05:14 PM): I think some sort of chime, and a note in the text screen should tell the player to save and go do some editing
JetGuitarist89 (11:05:30 PM): good idea
SteveMcWhat (11:05:31 PM): Like not saving int he right spot would be tres annoying.
niemandcw (11:05:36 PM): The best way as I see it is to have any instructions which come with the scenario be as fun to read through as possible. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:05:53 PM): screenshots
JetGuitarist89 (11:06:02 PM): picturebook instructions
niemandcw (11:06:07 PM): What about dialogs like: "Please save now and go to section 12 of the instructions"?
niemandcw (11:06:25 PM): ES: You're doing the illustrations. Make them like in KTD. 
dintiradan (11:06:33 PM): Seconded.
SteveMcWhat (11:06:39 PM): That would be the more overt way, but that destroys any image that its a normal scenario with holes in it
niemandcw (11:06:45 PM): (In addition to screenshots, of course)
JetGuitarist89 (11:06:54 PM): well, I was thinking something along the lines of the actual in game graphics and editor graphics
SteveMcWhat (11:07:02 PM): I kind of like the idea of having a sound or something to cue them, but that might just lead to confusion
tomsterthemonstr (11:07:30 PM): Maybe the AAAAAAHHHH sound.
niemandcw (11:07:36 PM): We could always have one of our fourth wall breaking dialogs come with a certain sound, like the magical chiming. 
dintiradan (11:08:08 PM): I don't think we could possibly avoid breaking the fourth wall. An indicator that we are would be a good idea, though.
dintiradan (11:08:30 PM): Or would the entire scenario be breaking the fourth wall.
tomsterthemonstr (11:08:44 PM): I was figuring that the whole scenario would be breaking the fourth wall.
niemandcw (11:08:51 PM): That was kind of my thought. Or that said wall would only be intact for short periods. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:08:56 PM): The main villain could be leading the player along by trying to lead them away (like in KTD)
JetGuitarist89 (11:09:09 PM): though that might get old fast...
SteveMcWhat (11:09:15 PM): Oh, and re entering towns is another pain
dintiradan (11:09:15 PM): I was under the impression that each character would be aware that they're in the game. "While you're it, would you mind bumping my charisma?"
JetGuitarist89 (11:09:21 PM): we could mix it up
SteveMcWhat (11:09:29 PM): Like my idea with the door script doesn't work without re entering.
JetGuitarist89 (11:09:36 PM): re-entering towns could be as simple as a special ability
JetGuitarist89 (11:09:39 PM): called: apply changes
niemandcw (11:09:46 PM): For teaching dialogue: an NPC has the wrong nodes linked together and gives useless advice. Link the correct nodes to get the right advice. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:10:06 PM): Ah. I like that.
niemandcw (11:10:16 PM): ES: Off the top of my head I can't think how that would work. We need the game to reload scripts. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:10:17 PM): Provided good instruction, that would work
SteveMcWhat (11:10:49 PM): Well there are some messy ways.
tomsterthemonstr (11:10:54 PM): I was thinking of having the player add the needed calls (begintalknode, state, etc.) to text1 and text2 already present to teach how to make the nodes in the first place
tomsterthemonstr (11:11:05 PM): but linking states is good practice for the harder parts of dialogue.
SteveMcWhat (11:11:22 PM): Basically to teleport them to a dark spot in the corner of town, and make them take a step that teleports them back to where they truly loaded from
niemandcw (11:11:32 PM): We could start with linking, then do a second exercise on composing nodes themselves, if we wanted. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:11:34 PM): Maybe an excess END action that the player needs to delete.
SteveMcWhat (11:11:34 PM): The second teleport would be a move_to_new_town
niemandcw (11:11:54 PM): That's what I was thinking, laz. 
niemandcw (11:12:08 PM): It's not too pretty, but sometimes it's necessary/ 
tomsterthemonstr (11:12:08 PM): Laz and Slith: that's probably all too complicated. Just make small towns that are easy to walk out of.
SteveMcWhat (11:12:14 PM): It requires a corner of town that's ringed in specials for that task
niemandcw (11:12:48 PM): Also: You can reload the town by moving the party into that same town. This is how BoR gets away with only one town. 
SteveMcWhat (11:13:05 PM): Yeah, but that can't be done from teh load state
SteveMcWhat (11:13:28 PM): Lets not talk about this, it can be done somehow, I know that. :P
niemandcw (11:13:31 PM): I was thinking like this: You walk up to a door. You find it has no script. 
niemandcw (11:13:42 PM): The instructions tell you how to put the script in. 
niemandcw (11:13:53 PM): Then, next to the door, there's a sort of a load point. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:13:58 PM): so who is the lovable guy who instructs our new hero?
niemandcw (11:14:09 PM): You step on it, and it send you to the same spot, reloading the town. 
SteveMcWhat (11:14:19 PM): Ok, I like that.
tomsterthemonstr (11:14:24 PM): Yeah, that's good.
SteveMcWhat (11:14:30 PM): And the narrator should be somehow in the story
SteveMcWhat (11:14:44 PM): Like some wizard or something guiding you.
JetGuitarist89 (11:14:52 PM): do you want to make this serious or silly?
tomsterthemonstr (11:15:00 PM): Definitely silly.
SteveMcWhat (11:15:02 PM): Silly, but not KtD silly
JetGuitarist89 (11:15:05 PM): :-(
niemandcw (11:15:09 PM): It can't be all that serious, so I vote for mildly silly. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:15:21 PM): Okay, well I'm voting for overly exaggerated characters
SteveMcWhat (11:15:23 PM): Like Cave of no Return silly
JetGuitarist89 (11:15:30 PM): was that redundant?
tomsterthemonstr (11:16:14 PM): I say we get a first town made with a first lesson in it, and then we work from there.
dintiradan (11:16:14 PM): A parody of the fairy from Zelda, perhaps?
dintiradan (11:16:15 PM): Navi?
JetGuitarist89 (11:16:29 PM): here's the thing
dintiradan (11:16:40 PM): (As the narrator or guide)
JetGuitarist89 (11:17:01 PM): we can't make the narrator annoying
niemandcw (11:17:08 PM): Indeed not. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:17:14 PM): I think we should have different narrators for different parts
JetGuitarist89 (11:17:15 PM): we can make one of them annoying
JetGuitarist89 (11:17:23 PM): but I think another should be a very serious drill sergeant type guy
tomsterthemonstr (11:17:31 PM): wtf
niemandcw (11:17:53 PM): I was thinking of the narrator being us. After all, we're the ones doing the guiding, helping out a budding new designer. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:17:59 PM): Yeah.
JetGuitarist89 (11:18:22 PM): I think it would be more fun if the narrators were characters in the story, but if that's how you guys want it
tomsterthemonstr (11:18:48 PM): We can go all TM-style and make ourselves characters in the story if we want.
dintiradan (11:18:57 PM): Seems gratuitous to me, I'm with Slithy. But hey, if that's what everyone else wants..
SteveMcWhat (11:19:14 PM): I like the character in the story idea, but the character can somehow be outside the world. Like Kel said, almost a cameo
tomsterthemonstr (11:19:14 PM): If so, I get to be the confused wizard who forgets what he's saying and you have to fix my states. :-p
dintiradan (11:19:19 PM): If someone really wants, they can put in a thinly veiled cameo.
niemandcw (11:19:38 PM): To go back to an old point: what will be the tasks for which the player must draw floors and heights?
SteveMcWhat (11:19:40 PM): Somehow he's obviously not bounded by the scenario like a normal character, and he smashes the 4th wall like its his job
dintiradan (11:19:48 PM): If so, I get to be the guide who's secretly working for the enemies. :-P
tomsterthemonstr (11:20:14 PM): Niemand: Maybe you have to get up a cliff and must design hills to make it so.
niemandcw (11:20:30 PM): Okay, that combines terrains and heights. 
SteveMcWhat (11:20:39 PM): Hills should be there
JetGuitarist89 (11:20:48 PM): yeah, put a door up on a ledge
SteveMcWhat (11:20:48 PM): So first you need to scale a small height, so you build hills
SteveMcWhat (11:21:01 PM): Then a massive chasm shows up, and instead you just level it out using heights
niemandcw (11:21:09 PM): Heh. That way you also get that really funny look of many hills at the same height. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:21:48 PM): stairs are easier than hills
niemandcw (11:22:02 PM): Stairs and hills are the same. They just have different graphics. :p
JetGuitarist89 (11:22:25 PM): hills involve corners
SteveMcWhat (11:22:26 PM): Stairs have no corner pieces
JetGuitarist89 (11:22:37 PM): stairs are also easier to visualize, in my opinion
SteveMcWhat (11:22:41 PM): And its obvious which way stairs go. (This was a source of problem for me when I first started)
SteveMcWhat (11:22:44 PM): Sniped again
tomsterthemonstr (11:22:47 PM): I'm thinking that's a good second or third lesson.
JetGuitarist89 (11:22:54 PM): and, for the love of God, make sure to tell them to turn auto hills off
niemandcw (11:23:00 PM): True. If we provide the terrain it's not a big deal, but let's do stairs. 
SteveMcWhat (11:23:03 PM): Heh
niemandcw (11:23:18 PM): Yes. Turning off auto hills will be imprortant
tomsterthemonstr (11:23:25 PM): I figure the first lesson should be editing town scripts, maybe dialog boxes or something.
dintiradan (11:23:29 PM): (Auto hills ain't that bad, if it's the first thing you do when building a town. Afterwards, yes, turn it off.)
niemandcw (11:24:02 PM): I was thinking like this: First the player much reach the friendly toen. 
niemandcw (11:24:17 PM): On the way there, he learns about basic editor use, drawing terrains, etc. 
niemandcw (11:24:48 PM): Once at the town, he learns about placing terrain script,s editing dialogue, and script states. 
dintiradan (11:25:04 PM): Painting terrain would be easier conceptually than editing a terrain script, in my opinion. So I'm with Niemand.
niemandcw (11:25:14 PM): Maybe then there's a detour to get a weapon and a helper, leading to item and creature definitions. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:25:14 PM): Okay.
dintiradan (11:25:22 PM): But yes, the simplist script stuff should be done early on.
niemandcw (11:25:38 PM): Then comes the boss' lair, with more scripting lessons and so forth. 
dintiradan (11:25:44 PM): Special rectangles with one time effects and the like.
SteveMcWhat (11:25:59 PM): OK, so first is an obstacle course thats solved by redrawing
niemandcw (11:26:07 PM): Those should likely happen somewhere in the middle. 
niemandcw (11:26:14 PM): Laz: exactly. 
SteveMcWhat (11:26:20 PM): Dangerous floors, heights, etc.
JetGuitarist89 (11:26:52 PM): As an overall note, let's include a way to jump to certain sections of a scenario.
SteveMcWhat (11:27:01 PM): Oh, idea for editing floor properties. Have some sort of baddie that keeps recreating lava, so you can't just draw it away. You have to edit it so lava is no longer "hot" :P
niemandcw (11:27:18 PM): Good thought. 
niemandcw (11:27:28 PM): What will we have the player draw floors for in the first phase?
SteveMcWhat (11:27:34 PM): Just lava I guess
SteveMcWhat (11:27:55 PM): I mean we have dangerous floors, and impassable floors
SteveMcWhat (11:28:08 PM): Redrawing dangerous floors is more fun imo, since everything else is based on impassable
niemandcw (11:28:38 PM): What about a ton of swamps that would otherwise diesease you to death?
SteveMcWhat (11:29:40 PM): That works.
SteveMcWhat (11:29:49 PM): Floors would be a good place to use the "fill" drawing option
niemandcw (11:29:58 PM): Ah, yes. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:31:14 PM): is anyone recording all this?
niemandcw (11:31:16 PM): I am. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:31:20 PM): okay
JetGuitarist89 (11:31:31 PM): I've got to go, I've been here way too long already :-)
niemandcw (11:31:33 PM): I'm both making a summary of our plan, and i am _so_saving this chat. 
JetGuitarist89 (11:31:35 PM): good luck everyone
JetGuitarist89 (11:31:42 PM): get some sleep
(11:31:44 PM) JetGuitarist89 has left the room.
niemandcw (11:31:46 PM): See you later. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:32:02 PM): So here's the thing.
tomsterthemonstr (11:32:09 PM): We need to get started on this.
tomsterthemonstr (11:32:24 PM): I feel like it would be easy to collaborate on this, but in pieces.
tomsterthemonstr (11:32:31 PM): So someone needs to make the first lesson.
SteveMcWhat (11:32:39 PM): Yes, I'd be all for drawing up the first town/obstacle course
SteveMcWhat (11:32:54 PM): Oh, the obstacle course totally shouldn't be outside
niemandcw (11:33:08 PM): Okay, Laz would like to do what I'm labeling 'Stage 1'. 
SteveMcWhat (11:33:14 PM): And this isn't just my standard outdoors bias. They fucking suck for refreshing terrain. :P
dintiradan (11:33:23 PM): You have to have a starting town anyway, so yeah.
tomsterthemonstr (11:33:25 PM): I'd like Stage 2.
niemandcw (11:33:28 PM): I agree. I like outdoors, but we should avoid doing editing there. 
niemandcw (11:33:38 PM): Kel wants to do the friendly town. 
niemandcw (11:34:07 PM): I wouldn't half mind doing the final stage, the boss' fortress. 
SteveMcWhat (11:34:10 PM): OK, well what's the starting town? We need to introduce the quest, and we need to introduce a narrator
SteveMcWhat (11:34:19 PM): I was thinking just have a wizard send you out on some errand.
SteveMcWhat (11:34:36 PM): Like you're his apprentice or something. And he'd be the one communicating to you to guide you
niemandcw (11:34:44 PM): At that point the party mainly need to reach the town, so give them a reason to do that. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:34:59 PM): He's summoning you to the town, which is where he is.
niemandcw (11:35:07 PM): Sounds good to me. 
SteveMcWhat (11:35:15 PM): OK, so there's a wizard. He is the narrator.
SteveMcWhat (11:35:33 PM): You start at point x. We don't know why you're there, it doesn't matter. He calls you to point y, and directs you there
niemandcw (11:36:10 PM): During stage two the party should be told about the main quest and be collecting resources. 
SteveMcWhat (11:36:23 PM): Point y being his hut? It makes a ncie first town, only one NPC and small.
tomsterthemonstr (11:36:31 PM): What's Stage 3 again?
niemandcw (11:36:38 PM): How will we break up the stuff between the friendly town and boss' lair?
niemandcw (11:36:44 PM): Kel: That's not yet defined. 
SteveMcWhat (11:36:46 PM): Blackmailing Jeff. No wait, that's a stage for a different plan.
tomsterthemonstr (11:37:02 PM): Step 3: Profit.
SteveMcWhat (11:37:06 PM): Outdoors I guess.
niemandcw (11:37:20 PM): We could have 3 be getting a sword and doing object definitions. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:37:22 PM): You could do a mini-lesson on outdoors.
tomsterthemonstr (11:37:24 PM): And why it sucks.
dintiradan (11:37:25 PM): I think it's important that we don't dump half a dozen tasks on the player at once. The player should only have one task on the todo list at a time.
niemandcw (11:37:36 PM): Then 4 is some outdoors, then 5 is the lair. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:37:47 PM): Yeah, sounds good.
SteveMcWhat (11:37:47 PM): The wizard's hut  would be ina  simple outdoors section along with a shrine or whatever for the item you're finding, and the baddie's lair
dintiradan (11:37:57 PM): No "make a weapon, change some dialog, and paint terrain". Give them an order.
niemandcw (11:38:02 PM): Agreed Dinti. Just 'fix this so you can go on'. 
SteveMcWhat (11:38:26 PM): Some menial tasks could be done in the wizard's hut.
niemandcw (11:38:29 PM): What would be in te outdoors lessons? Adding a town entrance, surely. 
SteveMcWhat (11:38:41 PM): A-la Apology. But use scripting to save yourself the pain in the ass.
tomsterthemonstr (11:38:59 PM): Heh.
dintiradan (11:39:02 PM): Should we do wandering monsters?
tomsterthemonstr (11:39:04 PM): That could be how you teach SDFs.
tomsterthemonstr (11:39:22 PM): "Either step on these runes 100 times, or just figure out how to set the flag to 100."
SteveMcWhat (11:39:39 PM): Oh, the wizard casted silence on himself, you need to fix his dialog script.
niemandcw (11:39:49 PM): We could do we want to caver that material in stage 1?
SteveMcWhat (11:40:18 PM): I thought stage one would be strictly drawing
niemandcw (11:40:24 PM): As did I. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:40:38 PM): I thought we were talking about the hut in Stage 2.
SteveMcWhat (11:40:38 PM): I think these stages should be as cohesive as possible. Like we should be doing one sort of task for a while.
niemandcw (11:40:42 PM): In town was where the player was to be introduced to scripts. 
SteveMcWhat (11:40:45 PM): They shouldnt be opening and closing word docs
SteveMcWhat (11:41:02 PM): Yes, precisely. The wizard's hut, stage 2.
niemandcw (11:41:18 PM): Oh. My list said stage two was th elocal town. 
SteveMcWhat (11:41:32 PM): He's silenced, so you fix his dialog script. His house is a shithole, so you patch it up using scripts or something, I don't know.
tomsterthemonstr (11:41:39 PM): Heh.
niemandcw (11:41:45 PM): so we could do dialogue, terrain scripts, and simple town script states. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:41:46 PM): I'll figure it out.
SteveMcWhat (11:42:35 PM): Yeah, I think we can give the designer for each "stage" creative license for how to teach each task
SteveMcWhat (11:42:44 PM): But we need to have a list of what is taught in each stage
niemandcw (11:42:47 PM): Dinti: do you want to build a section? We still have some fuzziness in stages 3-4ish. 
SteveMcWhat (11:42:58 PM): Or else it's not going to be logical, and it's going to be hard for the player to follow.
dintiradan (11:43:08 PM): Yes, I'm clearly an asset with the mass of experience I bring to this chat.
niemandcw (11:43:14 PM): Okay stage 1: drawing in the editor and closely related tasks. 
SteveMcWhat (11:43:16 PM): Oh, and stage 1 is going to take like 10 minutes, so I can do a later stage also
dintiradan (11:43:21 PM): If you guys need me for something, I can do it.
SteveMcWhat (11:43:27 PM): It's like an intro message and some drawing.
tomsterthemonstr (11:43:40 PM): Be thorough though.
niemandcw (11:43:56 PM): And lots of hand holding dialog boxes to tell the player what's going on and what to do next. Simple, but a little tedious. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:44:07 PM): You could include instructions on walls and stuff.
tomsterthemonstr (11:44:18 PM): Maybe on making halfway decent terrain, too.
tomsterthemonstr (11:44:21 PM): I'd like that tutorial. :-p
niemandcw (11:44:45 PM): Kel, you already wanted to do the town, and introduction to simple scripts. 
SteveMcWhat (11:44:53 PM): Heh. Something is so offensive to the senses that you have to fix it before you can progress
dintiradan (11:45:02 PM): "Oh no! This dungeon is all dark tiles! You can't see the doors! You need to change that." :-P
tomsterthemonstr (11:45:09 PM): Niemand: I meant that I'd like to RECEIVE that tutorial.
SteveMcWhat (11:45:10 PM): That would be a feat. A script that can recognize prettiness and refuse to let you pass until you fix it. :P
tomsterthemonstr (11:45:32 PM): Hey, you check the ground for frills and block_entry until there are enough. :-p
niemandcw (11:45:41 PM): According to my list, stage 2 consists of editing a town's INIT_STATE, placing a terrain script, tweaking a creature's memory ceels, and fixing a dialogue script. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:46:02 PM): Yep.
tomsterthemonstr (11:46:14 PM): And probably a little bit with a message_dialog or something.
niemandcw (11:46:22 PM): Also in stage 2: script a simple stairway. 
niemandcw (11:46:38 PM): Good point message dialogs are a designer's best friend. 
SteveMcWhat (11:46:40 PM): "Teleporter is broken"
tomsterthemonstr (11:46:56 PM): "Clean my attic, whippersnapper!" "There are no stairs." "Then make some, lazy bones!"
SteveMcWhat (11:47:06 PM): Heh.
niemandcw (11:47:14 PM): "i try to walk up the stairs, but I never get to the attic!"
dintiradan (11:47:32 PM): ^ Yes.
niemandcw (11:47:58 PM): Okay, we've got:
niemandcw (11:48:00 PM): Stage 2: The friendly town place a door script script a stairway edit a town's INIT_STATE to set character names.  edit a town's START_STATE to remove an annoying repeating message using message_dialog fix a dialogue script
niemandcw (11:48:29 PM): Ater stage 2, things are not yet nailed down. 
niemandcw (11:48:47 PM): We know we want to cover object definitions (items and creatures)
tomsterthemonstr (11:49:19 PM): When the wizard's dialogue is eventually fixed, he sends you off to fetch a sword to help you fight the baddies and get a friend who will continue to instruct you.
tomsterthemonstr (11:49:35 PM): You wander off a little ways and get the sword, but it's terrible and you have to fix its definitions.
niemandcw (11:49:48 PM): Sounds good. What else goes here?
dintiradan (11:49:49 PM): Makes sense to set Stage 3 in in the enemy's dungeon (make an enemy weaker, give yourself a powerful sword).
niemandcw (11:50:16 PM): I was thinking: stage 3: get tools to beat bad guy
niemandcw (11:50:23 PM): Stage 4: beat bad guy
dintiradan (11:50:36 PM): Okay, so where do we place creature definitions in?
dintiradan (11:50:46 PM): 3 or 4?
niemandcw (11:50:47 PM): 3 would cover at least item and creature defs, hopefully terrains and floors as well. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:50:52 PM): Maybe small intermediate bad guy along the way. So you weaken the enemy in Stage 3, and you actually muck with a creature script in Stage 4.
niemandcw (11:51:19 PM): creature defs would be for the helper. He starts out as beggar, far to puny to help you. 
niemandcw (11:51:32 PM): So you make a better creature type, and switch him to that. 
tomsterthemonstr (11:51:45 PM): Or that. Yeah.
niemandcw (11:52:05 PM): Still, we could introduce some fighting in stage 3. 
niemandcw (11:52:14 PM): You know, build up to the climax. 
dintiradan (11:52:20 PM): More fun to buff a character with cool abilities than to weaken a preexisting one.
dintiradan (11:52:42 PM): Yeah, I like the Super BeggerMan idea.
niemandcw (11:52:46 PM): So Dinti, do you want stage 3?
dintiradan (11:53:01 PM): Sure.
niemandcw (11:54:06 PM): So far:
niemandcw (11:54:07 PM): Stage 3: the preparation learning about object definitions.   forge a weapon to kill the boss  design a creature -> power up a beggar until he's a stupendous fighter   attach an npc to the party  an enemy keeps placing lava, so edit the properties of lava to make it safe to walk on
SteveMcWhat (11:54:28 PM): I like the idea of having the beggar say, in a pit with some baddie
SteveMcWhat (11:54:46 PM): And have to jack him up so he can beat it. It's fun to watch the overpowered monster you made crush someone
SteveMcWhat (11:54:52 PM): And its a way to measure if they actually did the task.
niemandcw (11:55:14 PM): If the beggar dies, make them go tweak the script, then reset time and make it ahppen over. :)
dintiradan (11:55:19 PM): Yeah, the point is to get the begger to fight the baddie. Also, we don't want the baddie to accidently kill the PC, so we make it a melee fighter.
tomsterthemonstr (11:55:21 PM): And the reset button can just spawn the beggar again.
SteveMcWhat (11:55:23 PM): Yeah, or he just runs away.
niemandcw (11:55:45 PM): I like a time loop, myself. Those are a good cliche. 
SteveMcWhat (11:55:45 PM): Like you "tell him to go at it again, and reassure him he's stronger now"
SteveMcWhat (11:55:49 PM): That sort of thing.
niemandcw (11:56:02 PM): Anyway, that can be Dinti's call. 
SteveMcWhat (11:56:13 PM): Yes, but jack up a monster so it crushes another.
tomsterthemonstr (11:56:14 PM): So that covers creatures, items, floors.
SteveMcWhat (11:56:18 PM): And then add him to the party.
niemandcw (11:56:36 PM): Next then, I think we have: Stage 4: the showdown
niemandcw (11:57:00 PM): Topics so far:
niemandcw (11:57:01 PM): set a flag to make the boss stay dead
niemandcw (11:57:06 PM): nerf the boss' dangerous scripted ability
niemandcw (11:57:23 PM): setting town entrance points?
tomsterthemonstr (11:57:30 PM): Yes.
tomsterthemonstr (11:57:58 PM): I'm still thinking about making your invisible allies visible.
SteveMcWhat (11:58:09 PM): Hidden groups
niemandcw (11:58:14 PM): Oh, duh. revealing hidden groups. 
SteveMcWhat (11:58:17 PM): Are incredibly useful, and very intuitive
SteveMcWhat (11:58:22 PM): Easy to teach.
niemandcw (11:58:56 PM): What else should a new designer know before we turn him loose on the world?
tomsterthemonstr (11:59:08 PM): I'm searching my brain for anything else.
tomsterthemonstr (11:59:15 PM): Maybe I should be searching my scripts instead. :-p
niemandcw (11:59:23 PM): Adding a boat?
tomsterthemonstr (11:59:32 PM): Something about quests, maybe?
dintiradan (11:59:57 PM): Gah. When will we talk about intro text? Never, probably.
niemandcw (12:00:02 AM): Maybe you need to add the call to complete the quest to kill the badguy. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:00:23 AM): Yeah, something like that.
niemandcw (12:00:29 AM): Intro text, I fear doesn't fit in well. We should probably just put in a descriptive one, and leave it at that. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:00:31 AM): Dinti: How hard is intro text, really?
tomsterthemonstr (12:00:45 AM): Huh. Shops.
dintiradan (12:00:47 AM): I guess.
niemandcw (12:00:54 AM): Of course, a couple of paragraphs of said intro text could describe what an intor text is and how to set it up. 
niemandcw (12:01:15 AM): Oh, yeah shops. Definitely Kel's section. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:01:34 AM): The weird thing is that shops are normally set up at the very beginning of the scenario.
tomsterthemonstr (12:01:38 AM): Slightly awkward.
niemandcw (12:01:55 AM): How aout an item that can only be bought after you talk to someone. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:02:18 AM): Okay, I think I've got it.
niemandcw (12:02:21 AM): The instructions could then just point out where to put the call if you want the item to be available all along. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:02:34 AM): Yeah.
tomsterthemonstr (12:03:15 AM): Do we have SDFs and variables in there anywhere?
niemandcw (12:03:35 AM): SDFs are in my section at least. 
niemandcw (12:03:43 AM): (make the boss stay dead)
tomsterthemonstr (12:03:49 AM): Oh right.
niemandcw (12:04:08 AM): Variables ought to go there too I think; how to cover them simply?
tomsterthemonstr (12:04:30 AM): Maybe as part of a while call somewhere.
tomsterthemonstr (12:04:43 AM): That's about 90% of what I use them for.
niemandcw (12:04:47 AM): Good thought, I do need to do loops and branches. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:04:49 AM): Other than string variables.
tomsterthemonstr (12:05:04 AM): And I mostly use string variables to address the party.
niemandcw (12:05:57 AM): Tangential point: how shall we refer to this project? (i need to title my notes file.)
dintiradan (12:07:01 AM): Edit Them Dead
tomsterthemonstr (12:07:06 AM): Heh.
niemandcw (12:07:13 AM): I love it. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:07:25 AM): It's a working title, at least.
dintiradan (12:07:43 AM): ... I've got to stop making off-the-cuff remarks like that.
niemandcw (12:07:53 AM): Sure, we can always name the scenario something else for release. 
niemandcw (12:08:07 AM): But ETD is too good a working title to pass up. 
(12:08:10 AM) tyranicus86 has entered the room.
tomsterthemonstr (12:08:14 AM): For sure.
tyranicus86 (12:08:27 AM): Good lord.  You people are still at it?
tomsterthemonstr (12:08:43 AM): We have just planned out the greatest scenario ever.
tomsterthemonstr (12:08:48 AM): Edit Them Dead.
tyranicus86 (12:08:52 AM): lol
niemandcw (12:09:09 AM): It's gonna be fun to write, that's for sure. 
SteveMcWhat (12:09:13 AM): Quest assignment and rewards need to be included
SteveMcWhat (12:09:25 AM): Reward_give is like the reason people start designing. :P
tomsterthemonstr (12:09:32 AM): We had quest completion in Stage 4.
tomsterthemonstr (12:09:41 AM): I imagine rewards could be associated with that.
SteveMcWhat (12:09:44 AM): Ok. Quest assignment could go in the dialog part
SteveMcWhat (12:09:48 AM): Or left out
niemandcw (12:09:56 AM): Stage 3 is a little sparse, but they don't really have anything to do with object definitions. 
SteveMcWhat (12:09:57 AM): Something t hat needs to be done in the code section could be included
tomsterthemonstr (12:10:23 AM): Yeah.
tomsterthemonstr (12:10:31 AM): I think that makes sense.
niemandcw (12:10:41 AM): Okay, stage 2 it is. 
SteveMcWhat (12:11:06 AM): Okay, Kel definitely has the hardest part
SteveMcWhat (12:11:33 AM): And I have the easiest, so if you need a break you can pass it off to me, or any of the lazy bums who went to sleep early and weren't assigned jobs. :P
niemandcw (12:11:52 AM): Parts 2 and 4 have about the same number of steps, but I don't think we should let them balloon too much more. 
SteveMcWhat (12:11:53 AM): Oh, character of the wizard.
SteveMcWhat (12:12:07 AM): I'll be the first one to introduce him sort of, how does he act?
dintiradan (12:12:10 AM): Yeah, someone _will_ be posting a thread on this, so other people can help out too, right?
dintiradan (12:12:17 AM): Or do we want a small team on this?
tomsterthemonstr (12:12:48 AM): I figure the four of us are plenty to get the initial design done, and then the others can comment as needed.
niemandcw (12:12:52 AM): I'm collecting email address for the core people involved right now, but I wouldn't mind sharing this with others while we work. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:12:56 AM): I mean, we could have them comment on the plans as we go.
dintiradan (12:13:14 AM): Wizard: Hmm. Either a cantankerous "get off my lawn" type, or an absent-minded professor type. 
SteveMcWhat (12:13:15 AM): The wizard = 90% of your interaction, so I think we all need to agree how he's going to talk.
SteveMcWhat (12:13:27 AM): That seems to be the two stereotypes available to us
(12:13:43 AM) tyranicus86 has left the room.
SteveMcWhat (12:13:49 AM): "Get off my lawn" contrasted with "help me and do everything for me" makes for interesting dialog. :P
tomsterthemonstr (12:14:03 AM): Yeah, I think he should sort of be both. :-p
niemandcw (12:14:13 AM): Oragnizational notes: Laz, can you still be reached at mcleod989@yahoo?
SteveMcWhat (12:14:16 AM): Yes.
niemandcw (12:14:28 AM): And Kel: Is it still tomwatts@berkeley?
tomsterthemonstr (12:14:34 AM): Yep.
(12:14:45 AM) tyranicus86 has entered the room.
niemandcw (12:15:39 AM): I'm assuming ES is still JetGuitarist89@aol, but I don't think I have any contact info for Dinti. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:16:04 AM): Just yell loudly.
dintiradan (12:16:05 AM): ES's e-mail sounds familiar, if it doesn't work I should have it saved somewhere.
dintiradan (12:16:25 AM): dintiradan@gmail.com - I have a few others (Yahoo, ermarian), but they all forward there.
SteveMcWhat (12:16:45 AM): ES is jetguitarist last i checked
niemandcw (12:16:57 AM): Great. I'll attach my notes to an email to everyone when we decide to knock off work, then. 
SteveMcWhat (12:16:59 AM): Which was a while ago. He started college since, so it might change
tomsterthemonstr (12:17:19 AM): As far as I'm concerned, my deadline for my section is a week from today.
tomsterthemonstr (12:17:32 AM): I want to have something more or less finished by the end of the day next Saturday.
SteveMcWhat (12:17:49 AM): I'll try to have mine done asap, for people to critique and such. I want to have an example for how we're going to do things
niemandcw (12:18:29 AM): Okay. I fear that my next week is going to be a hellish semester end, but I'll try to keep working as quickly as possible. 
SteveMcWhat (12:18:43 AM): Like the standard format of how we're going to prompt them to make changes.
niemandcw (12:19:13 AM): Indeed. We should pick out a nice graphic for the reload points also. 
tyranicus86 (12:19:20 AM): Hey, is SW down for you guys?
tomsterthemonstr (12:19:28 AM): It was a bit ago.
tomsterthemonstr (12:19:31 AM): Might still be.
dintiradan (12:19:35 AM): Same as Kel.
tomsterthemonstr (12:19:42 AM): Yep. Still down.
niemandcw (12:19:48 AM): Yep, so it is. 
niemandcw (12:20:57 AM): For the reload points: how about http://blades.ermarian.net/graphic/force-patterns
tomsterthemonstr (12:21:16 AM): Good by me.
niemandcw (12:22:05 AM): Laz: You'll want to introduce the player to these in your bit, I think. 
niemandcw (12:23:31 AM): For the instructions, shall we go with HTML documents? All of us should be able to work easily with those (we all run websites, after all) and we can have stuff like images and links. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:24:03 AM): Hrm.
dintiradan (12:24:07 AM): Yes, easier than PDFs. Word documents are out.
(12:24:13 AM) ephesossh has entered the room.
ephesossh (12:24:19 AM): Whoah. People are still here?
tomsterthemonstr (12:24:21 AM): Seems fine to me.
dintiradan (12:24:26 AM): Unless Macs come with software to read .doc files.
dintiradan (12:24:28 AM): Hey Eph.
niemandcw (12:24:35 AM): Hey again, Eph
tomsterthemonstr (12:24:36 AM): TextEdit does, I think.
tyranicus86 (12:24:39 AM): Dinti, Macs can read .doc
niemandcw (12:24:43 AM): It does. 
ephesossh (12:24:50 AM): I'm pretty sure Pages can read them too.
tyranicus86 (12:24:55 AM): Yes, it can
niemandcw (12:24:56 AM): But .doc sucks. 
ephesossh (12:25:08 AM): Also, why on earth are the boards down this time?
niemandcw (12:25:15 AM): No clue. 
tomsterthemonstr (12:25:23 AM): No idea here either.
SteveMcWhat (12:25:29 AM): html works.
ephesossh (12:25:36 AM): Awesome.
tomsterthemonstr (12:25:46 AM): I should probably figure out how to use any of the control panel options on the boards, but I haven't looked at them since the switch.
tyranicus86 (12:26:13 AM): Diki banned a spmbot about half an hour before they went down.  not sure if that has anything to do with it
niemandcw (12:26:23 AM): They seem to mostly be good ways to shoot everyone in the foot, these days. 
ephesossh (12:26:25 AM): Probably not.
ephesossh (12:26:37 AM): Let's see if I can turn everyone green again! :D
niemandcw (12:26:40 AM): The banning was a couple of hours before the outage. I doubt it. 
ephesossh (12:26:59 AM): ...control panel gets a 500 error too. No dice.
SteveMcWhat (12:27:06 AM): Am I the only non mod in here?
SteveMcWhat (12:27:28 AM): I feel left out. But oddly privileged to be spying on you. :P
tomsterthemonstr (12:27:39 AM): I've lost track of who's a mod and who isn't.
ephesossh (12:27:50 AM): You say that like it matters, Laz.
dintiradan (12:27:50 AM): Non mod here too.
tomsterthemonstr (12:27:56 AM): We've been handing modships out like lollipops.
niemandcw (12:28:07 AM): Pretty much. 
niemandcw (12:28:20 AM): I can't figure out what *i thought he needed me for. 
ephesossh (12:28:35 AM): All hands on deck sort of thing, I guess.
tyranicus86 (12:29:08 AM): Power! Bwahahaha
ephesossh (12:29:18 AM): Bwahahahahaha!
tyranicus86 (12:29:40 AM): I got to use my topic lock picture today
tyranicus86 (12:29:48 AM): First time in a very long time
tomsterthemonstr (12:30:09 AM): You know, most of us being mods gives new meaning to Edit Them Dead.
tyranicus86 (12:30:16 AM): :-P
niemandcw (12:30:23 AM): My CRT makes a little 'fizz' sound when I switch to the SW window in my browser, as it changes nearly every pixel to black. Sigh. 
ephesossh (12:30:35 AM): So yeah... did I miss anything relevant to Blades in my absence?
tomsterthemonstr (12:30:47 AM): Only the greatest scenario EVAR!
niemandcw (12:30:48 AM): We have a most awesome scenario plan. 
tyranicus86 (12:30:53 AM): Niemand, black?
tyranicus86 (12:31:00 AM): The ISE page is white for me
niemandcw (12:31:25 AM): Tyran: The UBB's CSS seems to interact oddly with WebKit's error page. 
SteveMcWhat (12:31:31 AM): It's going to be the greatest collaboration ever
ephesossh (12:31:37 AM): Oh, do tell?
SteveMcWhat (12:31:42 AM): Which isn't saying much. It seriously might be. :P
tyranicus86 (12:31:48 AM): That's odd.  I'm using Safari, and it's white for me
tomsterthemonstr (12:32:08 AM): We're going to make a very, very broken scenario.
tyranicus86 (12:32:24 AM): Although, I'm using Safari 4, so that might have something to do with it
niemandcw (12:32:42 AM): I'm using a really modded copy of safari 3, so that might also be it. 
ephesossh (12:32:43 AM): Awesome!
ephesossh (12:32:53 AM): And is that the one we'll pester Jeff to include with Blades?
tomsterthemonstr (12:33:08 AM): Of course!
tomsterthemonstr (12:33:16 AM): It's a brilliant plan that can't fail, right?
niemandcw (12:33:33 AM): it's like we've already succeeded!
ephesossh (12:33:34 AM): Of course!
ephesossh (12:33:39 AM): Mwahahahahahahahahaha!
dintiradan (12:33:55 AM): Anyway, I'm heading off for a shower and then bed.
niemandcw (12:34:14 AM): Okay Dinti. 
dintiradan (12:34:17 AM): Best brainstorming Blades chat I've ever sat in, by the way.
tomsterthemonstr (12:34:26 AM): For sure!
niemandcw (12:34:28 AM): This was quite cool. 
niemandcw (12:34:39 AM): Do we want to write up a hype thread now, or wait until we have some actual work done?
ephesossh (12:34:52 AM): ...wait, no. Not cool.
ephesossh (12:34:54 AM): What did I miss?